Hand Pumps

Steeley · Sep 18, 2024

I have 4 king kegs, I want to attach hand pumps to them, as I am building a bar, if I attach pipe to the tap on the keg and fit a jubilee clip, to tighten and fit a check valve for the pressure and connect to the hand pump and then open the tap, is that being correct or have I got it all wrong, any advice would be much appreciated.

RoomWithABrew · Sep 18, 2024

Your plumbing plan will supply beer to the engine.

You mention a check valve for pressure do you mean an inline PRV? or a non return valve?

Beer engines often have a non return valve built in.

However if the beer is carbonated to any real degree it will force it's way through the beer engine and leak.

You will need a demand valve in the system between the keg and the engine. This opens when the engine is pulled and the beer then flows up the tube and into the engine.

You will also need a means of resupplying the headspace in your king keg with CO2 otherwise your engine will collapse the King Keg.

peebee · Sep 19, 2024

@RoomWithABrew has filled you in with what you need. I'll just repeat what he's saying about a "demand valve". History has associated a "check valve" as a component of a hand-pump setup, but it isn't a "check valve" (one way valve), it's a demand valve because you can't get a check valve to do the job you want of it these days.

And the pump itself contains check valves, usually two, may also be called "flapper" valves but they're not often "flapper" valves these days ... and you don't need to be concerned with any of that.

And you do need that source of carbon dioxide to top up the airspace above the beer (some recycle fermentation gas in mylar balloons, others use a gas cylinder ... up to you).

There's a download below (signature) covering Corny kegs, but you can glean stuff for King Kegs too. I'd use the LPG "secondary" (i.e. downstream of your cylinder - primary - regulator) regulator if using a gas cylinder (ordinary regulators can't hold such low pressure steady and they will burst your King Krgs).

Steeley · Sep 19, 2024

Thanks for those comments lads, I’m new to doing this, not new to brewing but fitting these pumps, it was an idea of mine to do it, but I am wondering now, should I bother, I was thinking of hiding my kegs inside a cupboard then fixing the pumps above, the corny kegs seem to be the common kegs to go to for using hand pumps though I thought I maybe able to adapt the king kegs, it gives me food for thought, it appears to be keeping the pressure that is the issue, so the way I keep the pressure now is by topping up with Co2 when needed, am I right in saying that will be needed constantly if I want to go with this system

peebee · Sep 19, 2024

Corny Kegs were cheap. There is still a market of secondhand kegs, also new (from China), And there's also competitive products about that are technically miles better. King Kegs are cheap but do have a more limited lifespan. In some ways, they have advantages over Corny Kegs. Don't blindly leap on the Corny Keg bandwagon ... you might be disappointed.

Stick with King Kegs for now and consider switching when they are end-of-life. If you want super-fizzy kegg-i-ade (as Graham Wheeler used to put it), consider swapping now 'cos King Kegs can't take the pressure ... but you want hand-pumps, so won't need that much pressure?

RoomWithABrew · Sep 19, 2024

Agree with all @peebee says.
Another option is do closed transfer into a beer bag, no demand valve needed unless you are positioning your bag above the engine.
I would stay with king kegs, ad hoc top up will be fine. I fitted a gas post to the top of my king kegs so I could inject gas from large co2 cylinder and swap out for a pressure gauge.

Steeley · Sep 20, 2024

peebee said:
Corny Kegs were cheap. There is still a market of secondhand kegs, also new (from China), And there's also competitive products about that are technically miles better. King Kegs are cheap but do have a more limited lifespan. In some ways, they have advantages over Corny Kegs. Don't blindly leap on the Corny Keg bandwagon ... you might be disappointed.

Stick with King Kegs for now and consider switching when they are end-of-life. If you want super-fizzy kegg-i-ade (as Graham Wheeler used to put it), consider swapping now 'cos King Kegs can't take the pressure ... but you want hand-pumps, so won't need that much pressure?

RoomWithABrew said:
Agree with all @peebee says.
Another option is do closed transfer into a beer bag, no demand valve needed unless you are positioning your bag above the engine.
I would stay with king kegs, ad hoc top up will be fine. I fitted a gas post to the top of my king kegs so I could inject gas from large co2 cylinder and swap out for a pressure gauge.

With the pressure, I use the 16gram cartridge with the top up tap attached to the cap and pressurised when heeded, the top up tap can stay on all the time, so what is the max pressure I will need to fit these pumps, at the moment my kegs are at 5/6 psi and fitting a demand valve between the keg and the pump is obviously essential with this set up

peebee · Sep 20, 2024

Steeley said:
With the pressure, I use the 16gram cartridge with the top up tap attached to the cap and pressurised when heeded, the top up tap can stay on all the time, so what is the max pressure I will need to fit these pumps, at the moment my kegs are at 5/6 psi and fitting a demand valve between the keg and the pump is obviously essential with this set up

Even 5 or 6 PSI gets through a few of those cartridges! But it'll do for now. Getting lower pressure manually is difficult, and if the pressure drops below zero a handpump will easily collapse a King Keg (probably terminally!). So, you can look at LPG regulators and dropping the pressure to 1 or 2 PSI at a later date. But I recommend it ... don't go years and years at 5 or 6 PSI: I did! I used King Kegs and manual top-ups with CO2, and I wish I'd figured out using lower pressure at a much earlier date.

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