I'm tasting a bottle tonight I'll post something.
No I'm not . I only kegged/bottled it a few days ago. Tonight I'm tasting the New Zealand pale ale.
I'm tasting a bottle tonight I'll post something.
Playing around in Brewer's Friend I think I can get it down to about 70g with a grain bill of 4.31kg, but that's down at the lower 25 IBU end of the scale for Best Bitter.Not sure what to call what I was making apart from a SMASH. 100% Vienna and 30g Chinook first wort hopped. I did a 20g whirlpool at the end. I'm tasting a bottle tonight I'll post something.
(I made a Helles with only first wort hops and it was amazing how the hop flavour carried through so I'm experimenting with doing it in other brews)
Good question, but having listened to the various Brewing Network podcasts I'm pretty darn sure it's 60min.Have you factored in the Fullers boil time?
Is it longer I wonder?
Thanks. From the podcasts where they interviewed the brewer they basically split the hops ⅔ & ⅓ between the stronger & weaker worts respectively - which fits with their own brewing log book, and what you're saying there.The beevana article possibly has the answer. The brewing record has two figures for each hop. They do two 60 minute boils. One of first runnings hopped with the larger quantities of hops. The second a wort of 1.005 with the lower quantity. Unless it has been recently debunked, hop utilisation is higher in lower gravity worts. I suspect the second wort is pretty hoppy. Also, boil size affects utilisation through hop concentration. Higher volume, better utilisation.
https://beerandbrewing.com/hops-utilization/
The posh name for it is hop utilisation and yes it's higher when brewing at scale, but like all these things it's complicated as different hop components respond differently. This presentation gives you an idea based on what happened in one particular experiment at Columbus Brewery in Ohio :Would brewing on such an industrial scale suddenly mean your hops go a lot further, or could they be using special "magic" hops only available to professionals???
Thanks, yes, I had a feeling that the commercial scale vs. homebrew scale might well be a factor.The posh name for it is hop utilisation and yes it's higher when brewing at scale, but like all these things it's complicated as different hop components respond differently. This presentation gives you an idea based on what happened in one particular experiment at Columbus Brewery in Ohio :
https://www.homebrewersassociation....ween Homebrew and Commercial Utilization..pdf
Also they say their average alpha is 11.4% which is high for the varieties they use, implying it was a good vintage - probably 2015 I suspect? You would need much more of 2023 hops for instance.
And yeah, you're probably used to being a bit heavy-handed - I'm the same, I tend to end up using all of a 100g pack in a brew because life's too short to have pennies' worth of hops hanging round in open packs. But for a commercial brewer it can be the difference between life and death.
OK - now I'm actually reading that as just the Target is 11.4% AAU. Reason being that I know from podcasts the Target goes in at 60mins for bittering and the rest very late at about 3mins (interestingly I'm certain the brewer mentioned they do a hopstand/whirlpool before chilling which isn't mentioned in the CYBI recipes or chatter on homebrew talk).Also they say their average alpha is 11.4% which is high for the varieties they use, implying it was a good vintage - probably 2015 I suspect? You would need much more of 2023 hops for instance.
You'll see on recipe sheets that this is at Declar, or declaration. This is when the yeast is pitched.(ESB & Chiswick Bitter are also dry hopped later on)
Hmm... Well, never say never... I think the main issue would be getting a whole free day to do it, in this case I had some leave to burn so it worked out ok.It does you good to go out of your comfort zone and challenge yourself every now and again. Do you think you would do it again ? There is probably something you've discovered that you can use again even if its not a full blown parti.
Hmm... Well, never say never... I think the main issue would be getting a whole free day to do it, in this case I had some leave to burn so it worked out ok.
First step is to see how these beers turn out. In the short term I think I'd be inclined to re-brew using my normal process and see what difference it makes.
But I don't think I'm done with this yeast strain just yet, it's incredibly flavorful - one of the beers I had recently at Rebellion had a very similar note to it, and apparently Lagunitas IPA uses the same strain. I'll be interested to try it in my Porter and American Amber Ale. I think an open fermentation could also be really interesting.
Well my normal AIO BIAB full-volume no-sparge short-boil homebrew process is already pretty slick these days. So I suppose a second boil is more of a significant percentage extra time spent.It must be possible to get 'slick' at it as it used to be common practice. Then again its not a popular commercial practice these days is it ? (genuine question, I don't know if its still done commercially).
Yes, it would be interesting to compare them made using your normal process and seeing what the yeast does to other styles.
I've made two brews using alternate methods recently - a Guinness clone which was a SMASH and steep recombined at the boil which gave me the idea of doing the three sub-styles of Biere de Guarde using a normal mash/boil plus two mini-mash/boils recombined for the ferment. It has opened my eyes to different ways of doing things and wanting to learn more.
Yep, agreed.I've certainly found a partigyle is a great thing to do if making barley wine or imperial stout.
The " free " keg of lighter beer at the end makes the efficiency bearable.
A few guys I went to homebrew club with started a brewery, they do this all the time. A normal beer and an imperial version from the first runnings, that they brand as their Monster range.I've certainly found a partigyle is a great thing to do if making barley wine or imperial stout.
The " free " keg of lighter beer at the end makes the efficiency bearable.
Right. For some reason I'd picked up it was something they did in the past. When I googled commercial partigyle I didn't get much so wasn't sure, hence the genuine question bit. Note to self, read c a r e f u l l y.Fuller's still do it (clue in the thread name ). At the commercial scale where you have to sparge then maybe it makes more sense. On the one hand I imagine Fuller's wouldn't do it if it doesn't make financial sense. But on the other hand maybe that's what makes their beers taste like their beers, and maybe it makes them harder to imitate.
It's all for financial reasons - effectively they reuse the heat used in heating the first gyle, by heat exchanging it with the second gyle. It is also a way to make a range of beers, including low-volume ones like Golden Pride that wouldn't work as a single brew on their big kit.Fuller's still do it (clue in the thread name ). At the commercial scale where you have to sparge then maybe it makes more sense. On the one hand I imagine Fuller's wouldn't do it if it doesn't make financial sense. But on the other hand maybe that's what makes their beers taste like their beers, and maybe it makes them harder to imitate.
I had a bottle of Golden Pride the other day actually, very nice. From memory I thought it had an ESB / 1845 kind of vibe, which would make sense if they're all using the same yeast if not the same grist (and possibly hops too).It's all for financial reasons - effectively they reuse the heat used in heating the first gyle, by heat exchanging it with the second gyle. It is also a way to make a range of beers, including low-volume ones like Golden Pride that wouldn't work as a single brew on their big kit.
Those are the main reasons, the effect on flavour is incidental but broadly you can think of flavour extraction as roughly proportional to the sugar extracted. So Golden Pride benefits from more flavour than you would otherwise get from a single brew, conversely don't make the USian mistake of not putting any first runnings in the weakest wort as you will end up with a beer with minimal flavour and a rather harsh tannic note IME.
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