Burnt bottom!

Buffers brewery · Oct 5, 2023

Earlier this year I switched to electric from gas(propane) heated kettle/boiler. The boiler has a circular heater in the base that after each brew day is coated in burnt/caramalised malt that has to be scraped off to restore the surface.
I’ve noticed that all my brews since changing boiler have been under par with an “I can’t place that flavour”. I’m now wondering if this burnt stuff is tainting my wort?
Do any of you electric heater brewers suffer burnt bottoms? If not, how come?

Cwrw666 · Oct 5, 2023

I only get it as burned as that when I'm doing a dark beer. It's the fine particles of darker malts/ roast barley that settle there then burn on. With pale beers it doesn't burn on black like that. You can help prevent it by just stirring all the time til it's up to boiling.
I've never had any off flavours though so I don't bother much about it.

Speccy · Oct 5, 2023

A couple of years ago I noticed a smoky flavour creeping into my brews. It was quite subtle to begin with, and not unpleasant, but it got worse with each batch, to the point the beer became completely undrinkable. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was causing it, until eventually I took a closer look at the kettle elements in my homemade boiler and discovered they were encrusted with burnt wort. They were beyond saving, so I swapped them for new ones and the smoky flavour disappeared and never came back. Since then I've been meticulous about scrubbing everything back to shiny steel post boil.

Anyhow, I'd say it's entirely possible the scorching you've got going on there is affecting the beer - maybe the colour as well as the flavour. Is it a purpose-built beer boiler, or a converted water heater? If the latter, it may have a small, high density element that'll be prone to scorching. Probably not much you can do, although Cwrw666's stirring suggestion sounds like a good one.

Clint · Oct 5, 2023

I suffer this regularly....see my Curry! thread...

crowcrow · Oct 5, 2023

On my Klarstein I get a good boil on 1500w - so I just leave at that now - but used to boil at 3000w - and I'd always get some burn stuff when I cleaned up. It comes off easily if you cover it with white vinegar and leave it for 24 hours.

Can't say I noticed a taste from it though.

I barely get any burnt on bits with the 1500w boil now

soupdragon · Oct 5, 2023

I used to get quite a bad patch like yours on my old ACE machine. Strangely the problem went away when I changed from Muntons Propino to Crisp Pale. I presumed it was a crush issue?
Oh, and lemon juice worked a treat for me. A quick soak then a gentle scrub and it came up spotless

Cheers Tom

Hazelwood Brewery · Oct 5, 2023

I don’t get that on my cygnet boiler, possibly because the element on my cygnet covers a greater surface area and so the heat is maybe not as intense?

Rakey · Oct 6, 2023

There are number of things you could look at, its most likely not the equipment causing this but more the ingredients being put in it which are making their way through the grain basket and then sitting on the bottom and burning.

Is it only with certain grist bills? As some will burn more easy than others.

Are you crushing your own grain? It could be crush level needs to be reviewed.

Are you using any additional sugars in your brews?

Brew_DD2 · Oct 6, 2023

I used to get this with my Peco boiler. The only solution was to still constantly on the way up to the boil. If I didn't, I got scorching and the wort was ruined. Learned the hard way a few times.

Switched over to a Digiboil as I got tired over having to stand over the boiler constantly.

bobukbrewer · Oct 6, 2023

I use a Burco boiler ( 3kW kettle type element not in contact with liquid). Ages ago I put a TRIAC voltage controller in series with the heating element. I get a tiny amount of colouring on the base, but it is not burnt on and wipes of with a sponge. Easy to control both mash temperaure and boil intensity.

hoppyscotty · Oct 6, 2023

you shouldn't be getting any burnt stuff on the bottom, though might not necessarily be a bad thing if it is imparting flavours you're after.....I run recirculation so keeping the wort moving over the heating elements/plate will avoid this. You probably have wort stagnating over the heating element.

Buffers brewery · Oct 6, 2023

Thanks for your thoughts. I have some experimenting to do after your feedback. I did wonder if the heater area was too small but I can’t do anything about that. I did replace the thermostat with a power regulator so can try different (lower) settings to identify how low I can go but still achieve a boil. As for recirculation of the wort, I can easily try this as I recirculate during cooling. I brew mostly pale ales so mostly crushed maris otter pale malt. I’ve noticed the latest bag of malt contains a lot of flour and that might be carried over in the wort to the boil.
Thanks again for your thoughts and advice acheers.

hoppyscotty · Oct 6, 2023

Think its not/less of an issue when heating up for the boil...its the malt matter that is burning, once you've lautered, assuming you don't pull much or any malt matter through to the kettle, then you've just got sugary water. I don't recirculate while bringing the wort upto the boil and run the element at 100% and don't get any burnt or caramelised matter on the element.

bobukbrewer · Oct 6, 2023

Buffers brewery - you might want to look at my unusual mash problem thread. Finger pointing at maris otter crushed too fine...........

LeeH · Oct 6, 2023

That’s a small surface area, and a lot of energy. It’s going to happen.

Brewing elements are a much lower watt density so don’t burn.

Keruso · Oct 6, 2023

Buffers brewery said:
Earlier this year I switched to electric from gas(propane) heated kettle/boiler. The boiler has a circular heater in the base that after each brew day is coated in burnt/caramalised malt that has to be scraped off to restore the surface.
I’ve noticed that all my brews since changing boiler have been under par with an “I can’t place that flavour”. I’m now wondering if this burnt stuff is tainting my wort?
Do any of you electric heater brewers suffer burnt bottoms? If not, how come?View attachment 90566

I get burning regularly, it’s correlated to how finely crushed the grain is and the amount of flour in the malt. Also certain adjuncts like flaked oats will add to the problem. The more flour the more burning. It’s very common. A few hours soaking in diluted citric acid usually lifts it off

samale · Oct 6, 2023

It happens when I use rye malt.

Buffers brewery · Oct 6, 2023

I've just rigged up a bit of an experiment. With a few gallons of tap water in my boiler I set the recirculation to go in the opposite direction, i.e. IN at the tap and OUT from the whirlpool pipe ashock1

. I could see a nice water current across the boiler bottom/element so should help with "stuff" sitting on the element. Also watched the "chalk" build up on the hot surface. I do have very hard water (don't mention that to @peebee)

MashBag · Oct 7, 2023

Errm. Hate to say it. But that won't help.
In short.. 'cos there is no sugars.

Bigger answer..
The after taste is being caused by what is called a maillard reaction between sugars and heat react. It provides a range of brown flavours smoky, burnt jam, caramel.

The cause is the choice of the element, not necessarily power but physical surface. Wattage density, a longer element at the same watts will be gentler that a shorter one at the same power. Big is beautiful, but smaller is cheaper. And that's the real issue. They don't need recirc pumps, they need a lower wattage density elements.

bobukbrewer · Oct 7, 2023

Mashbag, with my TRIAC I get a gentle rolling boil and almost nothing on the heating area, what there is is easily wiped off with a sponge. So any device to lower the voltage is the answer here. They are not expensive and do not need to be installed by a qualified electrician.

Burnt bottom!

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