Death by cycle.

[samale]

There are bad drivers and cyclists wherever you go and always will be. The worst offenders are usually the most vocal, the sensible drivers/riders do what is best to keep themselves safe even if it does break the new codes.
The vigilante cyclists are the worst on the cycling side as they are deliberately looking to get footage of trivial offences which sometimes they create by cycling inappropriately to other road users making them pass in awkward situations.
I used to use a long straight 50mph road every morning and there was this cyclist who when you passed him he would always shake is fist at every driver that passed him probably because of the speed they were doing to pass him and the draft created is all I could think of(me thinks he needed anger management).
This also applies to car drivers who are impatient to pass cyclist and do squeeze them.
I think we could all go on with examples of both

As a cyclist it's catch 22. If you hold the left side of the road drivers try and squeeze you trying to pass. If you hold more center you are accused of being a ****. I would hold the center approaching traffic islands, just to protect myself

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Driving a truck every day i am careful when overtaking cyclists and always give them as much room as i can this can be difficult on the narrow roads i often use in the lakes where cycling is very popular, fortunately most cyclists are not stupid and selfish like the ones we often see in videos and they will wave you past when its safe or even stop if they can to let you pass, as has been said its the selfish idiots who get the rest of us a bad name.

 

[The Baron]

I always look before passing a cyclist to see if they have a helmet camera on.
My sons colleague who does a fair few miles got a fine from the police after a cyclist submitted a video of him passing as I am led to believe they can measure the distance between a car and the cyclist? he was only about 4 inch too near so by all intents he was well clear of the cyclist but still got done as I said this was obviously a vigilante who submits whenever any body passes them.
It really does give a bad rap for the genuine cyclists

 

[old dog new tricks]

I always look before passing a cyclist to see if they have a helmet camera on.
My sons colleague who does a fair few miles got a fine from the police after a cyclist submitted a video of him passing as I am led to believe they can measure the distance between a car and the cyclist? he was only about 4 inch too near so by all intents he was well clear of the cyclist but still got done as I said this was obviously a vigilante who submits whenever any body passes them.
It really does give a bad rap for the genuine cyclists

This is a worrying trend and one step away from us all having to have cameras to justify any movements.
I have always given cyclists plenty of room and will continue to do so but stories like this make me concerned that I need to be able to prove my side of the story

 

[Chippy_Tea]

My sons colleague who does a fair few miles got a fine from the police after a cyclist submitted a video of him passing as I am led to believe they can measure the distance between a car and the cyclist? he was only about 4 inch too near so by all intents he was well clear of the cyclist but still got done as I said this was obviously a vigilante who submits whenever any body passes them.
It really does give a bad rap for the genuine cyclists

You should have challenged it -

I always slow down and indicate when passing cyclists so even if i pass within the 1.5 meter rule (which is not a law) i doubt any court would prosecute me for dangerous driving even if a cyclist sent them a video of me doing so because i have done everything i can to pass safely (they have to prosecute for dangerous driving as passing under 1.5 meters is not a law)


Rule 163 of the Highway Code states overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car.

In an effort to highlight the issue of motorists leaving insufficient room when overtaking a cyclist, often referred to as a 'close pass' incident, a number of police forces have undertaken initiatives to educate drivers in relation this issue. In some cases posters/floor mats have been used showing a minimum clearance of 1.5 meters. However, it's important to realise that the law doesn't specify a particular distance.

Many of the rules in the Highway Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey them you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving and in the most serious cases, you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words 'MUST/MUST NOT'. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. However, failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted. Legally, the Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts to establish liability – this includes rules which use advisory wording such as 'should/should not' or 'do/do not', as is the case in rule 163.

Therefore, because there isn't a specific offence of failing to give sufficient room to a cyclist when overtaking them, if it was alleged that a driver had done this, consideration would have to be given to the offences of careless driving contrary to section 3 the Road Traffic Act 1988 or dangerous driving contrary to section 2 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. However, each case would have to be judged on in the particular facts and in order to secure a prosecution, it would have to been shown that the driver was guilty of the offence beyond reasonable doubt. This would necessitate the prosecution having suitable evidence to show what occurred and to this end, cyclists often produce video coverage of an incident. From a police perspective, images from dashboard/helmet cameras can be used in legal proceedings but their evidential value all depends on the quality of the images and what they show. Just because a camera has captured an incident does not automatically mean that the police will be able to take action in every case or that the evidence will stand up to the scrutiny of a court – it will all depend on the circumstances.

If you are involved in a 'close pass' incident as a cyclist and you wish to report the matter to the police, we would suggest you contact your local force via the non-emergency 101 number or visit your local police station. Some police forces allow you to submit evidence captured by way of helmet camera via the internet, whilst others don't. It will all depend on your local police as to whether they provide this service. If they don't', you would need to contact them via the non-emergency 101 number for guidance on submitting such evidence.

 

[jof]

There are many roads I cycle on where passing at 1.5m is not possible, it's barely wider than single track.
As a normal (non lycra clad) person slogging up a steep hill, I expect to be passed & almost all drivers do so safely with a speed difference of about 10 mph.

There is nothing about passing distances with oncoming traffic on narrow lanes.

But to be honest most of the problems are on nice wide roads where traffic thinks it can pass you without going over the white line, or where the council have painted a 50cm wide cycle lane line along the edge of the road.

I actually don't like the way cycle clubs ride in huge packs. It's not a race peleton and not all roads are suitable for this style of riding.
In fact the worst incidence of this I encountered was a pack racing past a couple of horse riders. I'm amazed nobody was injured.

 

[MashBag]

Does any1 here actively break the highway code rules because not to do so would potentially be more dangerous?

I do every day I'm using the car because if I didn't I'd be in danger of being in an accident, I have to drive and wait in a turning lane(the wrong way) because if I don't I hold up traffic and would encourage drivers to over take me even tho im turning right(had a need miss on 1 of the few times I did this correctly!!!)

I agree. The important thing is to see it for what it is, understand it, and apply it sensibly.

It is the highway CODE and not the highway LAW. Two different things.

 

[MashBag]

I actually don't like the way cycle clubs ride in huge packs. It's not a race peleton and not all roads are suitable for this style of riding.

Are clubs encouraged to do that? Does it break the law?

 

[samale]

Are clubs encouraged to do that? Does it break the law?

you can cycle 2 a breast..it's probably the safest way because it forces the driver to overtake correctly. Obviously this is in main roads, smaller country roads you cycle single file. Normally the size of the group is also limited

 

[stripeyjoe]

Do i think every cycle should be registered and insured? not sure insurance is expensive if you declared road riding it would be eye watering given the risk.

Third party cycle insurance is cheap as chips, you generally get it for free by joining a cycling club, I’ve got mine for joining the London Cycling Campaign.
https://lcc.org.uk/insurance/

 

[Frisp]

Are clubs encouraged to do that? Does it break the law?

Nope no law breaking with the peleton.
While a peleton can look like a rolling roadblock its considered a safer option for both cyclists and motorists.

If say 10 riders are strung out in a straight, line the temptation is for motorists to perform an overly long overtake possibly 70 to 100 feet and will invariably squeeze a rider at some point iduri ng the manouver. also the opportunity for such long overtakes can be fewer

However most of the peletons we see are shorter. more akin to the footprint of a rigid lorry.. this makes any overtake, shorter more considered and more often the vehicle passes fully in the opposing lane. it also forces vehicles to slow to cycle speeds before looking for the overtake in the same way we would for a tractor/ trailer, lorry or caravan.

 

[MashBag]

That makes good sense. Thanks

 

[Clint]

A farmer friend was putting his cows across the road to go to the fields when some cyclists appeared and refused to stop,panicking the cows and causing chaos! It's just lucky they weren't crushed.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It's just lucky they weren't crushed.

It's just lucky a shame they weren't crushed.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I always look before passing a cyclist to see if they have a helmet camera on.
My sons colleague who does a fair few miles got a fine from the police after a cyclist submitted a video of him passing as I am led to believe they can measure the distance between a car and the cyclist? he was only about 4 inch too near so by all intents he was well clear of the cyclist but still got done as I said this was obviously a vigilante who submits whenever any body passes them.
It really does give a bad rap for the genuine cyclists

why would you assume ‘he got done’? You suggesting the police didn’t look at the video and assess it in some way? How many drivers passed that cyclist on that particular ride? Did he report every single driver who passed him that day? Why single out that one driver out of the dozens who passed him that day? Are you suggesting a cyclist can accurately assess a 4 inch encroachment into the recommended 1.5 metre passing zone out of the corner of their eye? Drivers are allowed and encouraged to have dashcams in their cars and ok for them to police the roads, because drivers have impeccable judgement of course, but cyclist with them are ‘idiot vigilantes giving cyclists a bad name’?

I suspect the driver did perform a close and potentially dangerous pass and is either being economical with the truth when regailing his tale of woe down the pub, or was not even aware….which is the whole point….raising awareness. Every time I’m the recipient of a close pass I don’t assume the driver did it on purpose, in most cases at least. I don’t have a camera, but have been considering it recently. But just another device to charge and manage. Already takes me long enough to get ready to go out on the bike.

I’ve got a work mate who was cycling to work minding his own business and got rear ended by a driver who “didn’t see him” despite him wearing hi viz clothing and lit up like a Christmas tree. Was paralysed from the waist down. Luckily he’s a stubborn lad, saw the prognosis as a challenge and over the course of several years managed to walk unaided again, though more of a hobble than a walk, and still rides his bike, though at walking pace which just seems to P drivers off even more….obviously, cyclists can never win. Forgive me if I don’t tune my violin for any driver who feels aggrieved for being reported for a dangerous pass they were not even aware of.

 

[Rodcx500z]

A conversation i had last year on the Kirkstone Pass when i passed a 60 something entitled toad on 2 wheels, this is a narrow road with passing places in some parts, so i am behind this guy and could'nt get past so i waited until the next passing place and nipped past about 20mph i could see in my mirror he was waving at me or so i thought and all this was after i had waited thinking he would pull into a passing place and let me go, anyway about a mile later we stopped for some lunch at a cafe and were sat outside eating and along comes lycra man don't they look silly when their older so he starts giving it what for that i was to close and whatever me in my best French i can't have been that close, him why, me your still walking and riding your bike, this upset him even more he said it's all on camera, me good put it on bookfarce or send it to the the police if it makes you feel better, he then made his biggest mistake and said listen mate, me shut your feckin mouth and i am not your mate now jog on like the good mard a--s you are he them threatend me so i didn't wait i just did what my grandad taught me and hit him only once then the police came, luckily for me the owner of the cafe had it all on cctv and a couple on the next table said it was all his fault and i had been civil with him until he got nasty, also turned out he didn't have a camera, then said he didn't want to press charges. i will say i don't dislike cyclists they have as much right as anyone to use the roads

 

[New To Brew Sort OF]

Everyone has a subjective view of the world, whats safe for 1 is deemed dangerous by another(really suprise I ain't been reported myself) I was out riding with a mate who had a close call with a white van on a left hand bend crossing the line?, anyway mate had a camera running at the time and on review of his close call which he was adamant was the vans fault even when watching footage, till I pointed out his camera was on the left hand side of his bike making him the1 who had run wide and not the van driver

 

[The Baron]

why would you assume ‘he got done’? You suggesting the police didn’t look at the video and assess it in some way? How many drivers passed that cyclist on that particular ride? Did he report every single driver who passed him that day? Why single out that one driver out of the dozens who passed him that day? Are you suggesting a cyclist can accurately assess a 4 inch encroachment into the recommended 1.5 metre passing zone out of the corner of their eye? Drivers are allowed and encouraged to have dashcams in their cars and ok for them to police the roads, because drivers have impeccable judgement of course, but cyclist with them are ‘idiot vigilantes giving cyclists a bad name’?

I suspect the driver did perform a close and potentially dangerous pass and is either being economical with the truth when regailing his tale of woe down the pub, or was not even aware….which is the whole point….raising awareness. Every time I’m the recipient of a close pass I don’t assume the driver did it on purpose, in most cases at least. I don’t have a camera, but have been considering it recently. But just another device to charge and manage. Already takes me long enough to get ready to go out on the bike.

I’ve got a work mate who was cycling to work minding his own business and got rear ended by a driver who “didn’t see him” despite him wearing hi viz clothing and lit up like a Christmas tree. Was paralysed from the waist down. Luckily he’s a stubborn lad, saw the prognosis as a challenge and over the course of several years managed to walk unaided again, though more of a hobble than a walk, and still rides his bike, though at walking pace which just seems to P drivers off even more….obviously, cyclists can never win. Forgive me if I don’t tune my violin for any driver who feels aggrieved for being reported for a dangerous pass they were not even aware of.

 

[The Baron]

If you read the thread it does say that the driver was 4 inch inside the allowed distance and no this was not a pub tale but it was a company car and the police sent the information to the company and it was read out in a company meeting to make other drivers aware of what had happened and how it may affect them.
So that may be within the distance but does not in my world make it a close pass.
it was discussed to make other drivers of the company to make sure they give them a wider berth that they think is the limit and the police did say they had reviewed the video and could measure the pass distance hence the 4inch mentioned.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Ah there you go....a perfect example of the bias people can get when tensions are stoked up between different groups. Guilty as charged. But the discussion did focus on vigilante cyclists reporting drivers and implying police don't properly review and assess complaints and just rubber stamp complaints by cyclists so that was the point I was trying to make.. that drivers tend to not be so willing to accept things whenever they get caught..same with speeding, parking fines and running red lights...they always feel aggrieved, I count myself in that too.

Good to know that some police forces actually take complaints from cyclists seriously, because where I'm from they go into a black hole and cyclists never get any feedback at all about wether the complaint has been upheld or not.

I agree with your comment about close passes and in some ways it's unfortunate that the 1.5m rule has been made. Wether or not a cyclist feels like they've been a victim of a close pass depends on alot of factors. In some cases 1.5m feels like a country mile and in others like you've just narrowly escaped death. As soon as you put a specific rule around something inevitably there will be those who feel the need to police it. There used to be a time when common sense and a bit of empathy for your fellow person prevailed and having laws and rules around every tiny aspect of our lives wasn't necessary, but those times are gone.