Bottling after carbonation

[user 40634]

Hi, I’m a year into homebrewing and, thanks to the advice from this forum, my beers are improving, really appreciate all the knowledge that’s been passed on.

I have an issue with bottling my carbonated beers and wondered in anyone could help? The beer is carbonated in a corny keg and is transferred to bottles via ball locks and a Blichmann beer gun. The tubing is 3/16’’ to reduce bubbles. Before bottling I reduce the pressure in the keg to about 2psi using the venting valve as I’m worried that beer at higher pressure will just ‘jet’ out. In reducing the pressure am I removing the CO2 from the beer? and is there any way around this. My beers seem quite flat despite having a weak carbonating at the pressures recommended on Brewfather.
Thanks

 

[Moorbs]

Hi, I'm new to bottling carbonated beer but I've just done the research and bought the stuff for it. From what I understand you will lose less carbonation, aroma and flavour if you use a counter pressure bottle filler. You leave the keg at the pressure you had and set the pressure on the filler to be slightly below that which sets that pressure in the bottle. You purge the bottle with CO2 then fill with an adjustable flow rate.

I bought a kegland nukatap, the iTap looks better but is more expensive.

You'll need to have a CO2 canister, regulator and air line to use it (not sure if you have that for your keg already?)

 

[Sadfield]

Before bottling I reduce the pressure in the keg to about 2psi using the venting valve as I’m worried that beer at higher pressure will just ‘jet’ out. In reducing the pressure am I removing the CO2 from the beer?

Reducing the pressure is correct for transferring to bottle, but all that is doing is reducing the pressure in the head space. The dissolved co2 in the beer should stay in solution. Filling a bottle should be like carefully pouring a beer with very little head, in that I doesn't lose carbonation unless agitated or changed in temperature.

What pressure and temperature are you carbing at? And what temperature is the beer at when bottling?

Also, what level of carbonation are you aiming for? Cask ale, supermarket lager... Etc?

If you were losing significant carbonation at bottling, there would be foam everywhere.

 

[user 40634]

Hi, I'm new to bottling carbonated beer but I've just done the research and bought the stuff for it. From what I understand you will lose less carbonation, aroma and flavour if you use a counter pressure bottle filler. You leave the keg at the pressure you had and set the pressure on the filler to be slightly below that which sets that pressure in the bottle. You purge the bottle with CO2 then fill with an adjustable flow rate.

I bought a kegland nukatap, the iTap looks better but is more expensive.

You'll need to have a CO2 canister, regulator and air line to use it (not sure if you have that for your keg already?)

Thanks Moorbs, that's great. I was about to buy a Nukatap as I have two gas sources each with a regulator. I'll give this a try. Good luck with your system.

 

[user 40634]

Reducing the pressure is correct for transferring to bottle, but all that is doing is reducing the pressure in the head space. The dissolved co2 in the beer should stay in solution. Filling a bottle should be like carefully pouring a beer with very little head, in that I doesn't lose carbonation unless agitated or changed in temperature.

What pressure and temperature are you carbing at? And what temperature is the beer at when bottling?

Also, what level of carbonation are you aiming for? Cask ale, supermarket lager... Etc?

If you were losing significant carbonation at bottling, there would be foam everywhere.

Hi Sadfield, thanks for taking the time to reply.Good to know that it's only the headspace gas I'm losing.
I'm brewing English bitter at 2.4 vols of CO2, I use Brewfather to get the pressure levels. Unfortunately the garage, which is normally cool has been at 14'C because of the hot weather. I've had to put in some pretty high pressure levels to get the carbonation recommended, the last batch was 18psi (1.3 bar) for a week. I put the bottles in the fridge before bottling to reduce foaming.

 

[Sadfield]

Knowing and maintaining the exact beer temperature is critical when carbonating by top pressure. If the beer is warmer than you think it is, or fluctuates in temperature, that would account for lower carbonation. Are you relying on ambient temperature to cool the beer down from fermentation temperature?

 

[user 40634]

Yes I’m relying on the temperature of the garage, the 19L corny is too big for my brewing fridge. Any ideas on what methods are used to maintain the temp, I assume that it’s a bigger fridge or a kegerator.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

This forum is great for discovering new things! Why would you put beer in a pressurised corny keg if you intend to bottle it? I don't understand why you wouldn't just transfer directly to bottles with priming sugar when fermentation is complete.

 

[Sadfield]

Not wanting to be confined to drinking one entire keg, it frees the keg up sooner, whilst giving a range of beers available.

Having portable beer to drink elsewhere, give to friends, enter competitions, take to homebrew club.

Some styles suit force carbination better than bottle conditioning, with no refermentation, less sediment.

Using mixed gas containing nitro, rather than pure co2.

 

[user 40634]

This forum is great for discovering new things! Why would you put beer in a pressurised corny keg if you intend to bottle it? I don't understand why you wouldn't just transfer directly to bottles with priming sugar when fermentation is complete.

Hi, I’ve had some bad experiences in my youth when my dad brewed and bottles burst everywhere, so I’m mentally scared! I also prefer to minimise the yeast in the bottles.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Not wanting to be confined to drinking one entire keg, it frees the keg up sooner, whilst giving a range of beers available.

Having portable beer to drink elsewhere, give to friends, enter competitions, take to homebrew club.

Some styles suit force carbination better than bottle conditioning, with no refermentation, less sediment.

Using mixed gas containing nitro, rather than pure co2.

Thanks for this.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Hi, I’ve had some bad experiences in my youth when my dad brewed and bottles burst everywhere, so I’m mentally scared! I also prefer to minimise the yeast in the bottles.

Seems like a complicated way to avoid explosions and yeast in bottle, but each to their own!

 

[Sadfield]

To reiterate what I said earlier.

Excessive foaming is an indicator of carbonation during bottling. If this isn't the case, then the issue is likely that the carbonation level in the keg isn't as high as it should be.

Blichmann recommend carbonation and bottling with the beer at 4-5°c. The further away from that the more difficult it becomes.

You've actually have the equipment to bottle condition consistently with minimal yeast sediment.

At the end of fermentation, chill the beer to around 5°c for a couple of days in the FV in your fridge. This will drop most of the yeast out of the beer.

Transfer to the corny keg and use this as a conditioning tank for a week or two at garage temperature. If there's any ongoing fermentation it'll happen here. Any pressure created can be vented using the kegs pressure release valve.

When you are ready to bottle. Measure the beers temperature and use a priming calculator to calculate exactly how much sugar to add. Add the sugar with a 1g of Champagne Yeast (Lalvin EC-1118), mix well, then bottle with your beer gun. As the beer is uncarbonated, this is easy as there's no foaming. Cap and leave somewhere warm to carbonate.

The advantage of champagne yeast, is it should only ferment the bottling sugar, as it's accustomed to fermenting grape juice, not barley sugars. It is also what is known as a 'killer yeast' that releases a toxin that most ale strains are sensitive to. Which should prevent any ongoing fermentation of complex wort sugars that cause gushing and bottle bombs.

Bottle bombs are the result of bottling to early or contamination. A bit of patience and good sanitation is the key.

 

[user 40634]

To reiterate what I said earlier.

Excessive foaming is an indicator of carbonation during bottling. If this isn't the case, then the issue is likely that the carbonation level in the keg isn't as high as it should be.

Blichmann recommend carbonation and bottling with the beer at 4-5°c. The further away from that the more difficult it becomes.

You've actually have the equipment to bottle condition consistently with minimal yeast sediment.

At the end of fermentation, chill the beer to around 5°c for a couple of days in the FV in your fridge. This will drop most of the yeast out of the beer.

Transfer to the corny keg and use this as a conditioning tank for a week or two at garage temperature. If there's any ongoing fermentation it'll happen here. Any pressure created can be vented using the kegs pressure release valve.

When you are ready to bottle. Measure the beers temperature and use a priming calculator to calculate exactly how much sugar to add. Add the sugar with a 1g of Champagne Yeast (Lalvin EC-1118), mix well, then bottle with your beer gun. As the beer is uncarbonated, this is easy as there's no foaming. Cap and leave somewhere warm to carbonate.

The advantage of champagne yeast, is it should only ferment the bottling sugar, as it's accustomed to fermenting grape juice, not barley sugars. It is also what is known as a 'killer yeast' that releases a toxin that most ale strains are sensitive to. Which should prevent any ongoing fermentation of complex wort sugars that cause gushing and bottle bombs.

Bottle bombs are the result of bottling to early or contamination. A bit of patience and good sanitation is the key.

Thanks for this, really useful, I’ll give this a go with my next batch

 

[Moorbs]

Thanks Moorbs, that's great. I was about to buy a Nukatap as I have two gas sources each with a regulator. I'll give this a try. Good luck with your system.

I realised today I needed some way of controlling the flow of the beer from the fermzilla or keg before it got to the nukatap counter pressure filler. You can order a cheap kegland plastic screw flow ball disconnect but I went for a kegland flow control tap instead which will be much easier to use during bottling (on, off, plus flow control instead of just flow control)