Youngs American Pale Ale

[terrym]

I started a Youngs American Pale Ale kit yesterday which is well in the expiry date of Nov 2016. I did a Youngs American IPA a while back and after 36 hours it had bubbled through the lock and so I decided that, this time, I would brew the APA short to 21 litres to give myself more headroom and start things off in the garage where temperatures are nearer 16*C rather than 22*C. I have also taken to starting off my packet yeasts by first hydrating for about 20 minutes using 200ml cooled boiled water at about 24*C and then getting the hydrated yeast going by mixing in about 3/4tsp sugar and leaving for about 30 mins before pitching into the wort (rather than just sprinkling dry yeast onto the wort). I also add 1 tsp yeast nutrient and 1/2 crushed campden tablet to my brews at the start of the wort mixing process and give the wort a good stir up prior to pitching to get them oxygenated.
So I did all of that and did notice that the yeast was very sluggish (compared to 'normal') when I chucked it in, although it had appeared to start.
I pitched at about 23*C, SG about 1057, and then moved to the garage, covered by a blanket. Twenty plus hours later, after a peek into the FV, there was no sign of any activity, not even the mat of tiny bubbles which precede the krausen forming.
I've now moved the FV into my water bath and so the temperature will be assured of 20*C
I had a word with Youngs and they said the yeast was slow to start and to leave it for 48 -72 hours before there is cause for concern. They also mentioned it was a bottom fermenting yeast.
I am not entirely convinced that everything is OK, however I do see others have noted that this kit is a slow starter.
Any thoughts anyone??
Ta

 

[mfj197]

When I brewed this back in May this year it was actually pretty active, not a slow starter at all. I started it one evening, the airlock was bubbling the next morning and from memory that evening (24 hours in) it was very active indeed. I brewed it exactly per the instructions and it ended up as a lovely pint. I've another one to put on in the coming days.

I can see a couple of steps you've taken that could cause a slow start. Firstly of course the low temperature, and secondly the campden tablet which could stun the yeast from the off. However both should just be temporary. Regarding the other modifications made, I can't comment on what they would do to the speed of starting.

One word of warning with the kit - the addition of the hops a couple of days before bottling does stir up the yeast a lot. Mine was clear when I added the hops but then was rather more cloudy when I bottled a couple of days later, with big sediment forming in the bottle. It would be better to let it settle down again before bottling or rack to secondary, which is what I'll do this time.

Michael

 

[terrym]

Michael
Thanks for your reply.
Since my original post I moved the FV into a warm room for a few hours (22-24*C), gave it a gentle stir, and then sat it my water bath arrangement where it is controlled at 20*C. After nearly 36 hours after pitching, and peeks under the lid to see how it was going I decided enough was enough since there were no signs of any life whatsoever, it reminded me of 21 litres of cool Bovril drink, yuk! So decision time; wait for Youngs to send me some more yeast with at least another 36 hours delay and have an increasing risk of infection, or pitch with something I had at the time. The best available was a Youngs yeast from a kit of John Bull Traditional English Ale and I went with that. It's now bubbling steadily through the lock, after about 32 hours with the first signs of airlock activity at 12 hours.
I think that original yeast was faulty in some way, even though the kit itself is well withing the BB date of Nov 2016. I didn't do anything different at pitching compared to what I have done before i.e yeast starter, campden tablet, wort temperatures, oxygenation etc.
What effect the different yeast will have on the final result and whether the 'dead period' has resulted in a contamination I will not know until later.
I will also be looking at probably using kits as soon as they are purchased since I had this kit in my store for a few months before I used it, although the BB date is over a year away.
Finally Youngs have been helpful and have agreed to send me a new APA yeast which I will use on something else, but my comment on their advice was that they relied solely on taking hydrometer readings rather than using your eyes and experience to determine whether the brew was active or not. I have been home brewing since 1969 (although there was a 20 year gap!) and know what to expect.
As far as as the dry hopping stage, I always rack off to another FV at the end of the primary when things are all but finished to reduce the yeast load in the brew and then add the hops using a large muslin bag weighted down with SS soup spoons, and usually leave the hops in there for about 5-6 days before bottling

 

[balmossie]

Any update?

My box came with 2 bags of malt extract... I thought this must have been a mistake so only used one (the American IPA I did previously only had one). It's been in the FV for 4 days now and is quite active but I'm wondering if I have made a mistake.

Anyone else done this kit and know how much extract should be in it?

 

[wheazy_joe]

Any update?

My box came with 2 bags of malt extract... I thought this must have been a mistake so only used one (the American IPA I did previously only had one). It's been in the FV for 4 days now and is quite active but I'm wondering if I have made a mistake.

Anyone else done this kit and know how much extract should be in it?

Did you take a gravity reading at the start? Pretty sure these kits come with two 1.5kg bags of malt extract and both should be added at the start. Sounds like you are gonna end up with a pretty thin, low ABV beer if you only added one pouch.

 

[Cqr]

I think I had 2 malts
1 hops
2 sugers one is for priming
Edit, the bag came with razerback not apa
+ yeast

 

[terrym]

Any update?

My box came with 2 bags of malt extract... I thought this must have been a mistake so only used one (the American IPA I did previously only had one). It's been in the FV for 4 days now and is quite active but I'm wondering if I have made a mistake.

Anyone else done this kit and know how much extract should be in it?

As you can see from the above I have done this kit, and it turned out really well. I will probably do it again sometime in the future
Anyway the contents as I remember them are as shown in the photo against this Amazon posting. I do not remember two malt sachets or a hop bag/filter
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JDOH1ZG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Other blurb I have found says
"A smooth, rich refreshing American Style Pale Ale which uses 3kgs of Malt Extract and 650g of Brewing Sugar (provided) to produce 40 pints at an average ABV of 5.6%. Fermentation, using the specialist American Yeast strain provided, will take approximately 10 days depending upon the ambient temperature, and the finishing gravity will be around 1008-1010.
The maltiness of the beer is balanced by the use of 60g of mixed Columbus and Centennial finishing hops which add strong Citrus, Floral and Pine flavours and aromas. The finishing hops are in pellet form and are added during the last few days of primary fermentation."
Do you still have the box, instruction, and remaining sachets esp the hops etc, to correctly identify what you have?

Is there any printing on the sachet you have left? How much does it weigh?

And +1 Wheazy_Joe's suggestion of an OG reading

If its a Youngs kit and all else fails you could always talk to them. I found them helpful

 

[Kman]

I recently got the American ipa and mine came with 2 bags of malt, 1.5 each

 

[balmossie]

Oh well sounds like a schoolboy error by me. I did a bit of searching online before making my decision.

It didn't help that the instructions read "cut off the top of the malt pouch and squeeze out the liquid malt extract into your fermentation vessel". This combined with only having one bag with the only previous kit I have done (also Youngs) led me to just putting the one bag in.

There is nothing I can do to save it now then? I don't see much point in taking the time to bottle up a thin, low ABV beer.

I'm tempted to contact Youngs as I don't think this is entirely my fault.

 

[Kman]

I'd throw it in some warm water to get it dissolved an put in fv

 

[wheazy_joe]

If the brew is still bubbling away then I would concur with kman and put the other pouch in, what's to lose if you are gonna throw it anyway?

 

[terrym]

I think I'd just put the other pouch in without any water and find out what the yeasties make of it. Its still got a week or more to slowly get absorbed into the rest of the wort.
But I would have a word with Youngs as well.

 

[balmossie]

I'd throw it in some warm water to get it dissolved an put in fv

Ok I just did this. Got a feeling this brew is going to be a write off though

 

[balmossie]

Ok thanks Terry and Joe. Guess we will wait and see now.

Pretty frustrating.

 

[Kman]

If it's still fermenting there shouldn't be a problem, only adding more food for those yeasts to munch on

 

[terrym]

If it's still fermenting there shouldn't be a problem, only adding more food for those yeasts to munch on

+1 on that.

 

[balmossie]

Thanks Joe, Terry and Kman.

It's been in the bottle for a month now and it is very good.

I've got another couple of kits on the go now, got the bug but looking to move forward with making more unique beers. Guess the question will be BIAB or straight to AG..!?

 

[wfr42]

Thanks Joe, Terry and Kman.

It's been in the bottle for a month now and it is very good.

I've got another couple of kits on the go now, got the bug but looking to move forward with making more unique beers. Guess the question will be BIAB or straight to AG..!?

They're the same thing - just done in different ways.

Have a read of the How to make a simple AG thread and try and small batch on your stove top.

While I'm really enjoying my AG beers, the 6 hours I took today from "yes the weather looks as if it is good enough to brew" to final clear up costs a lot more husband points.

Good luck with whatever you end up brewing.