Wort too dark

[Liam McDevitt]

My first 3 all grain beers have been far too dark. I'm using a 35l brewzilla. First batch was fine but second two were undrinkable. They were all ipa but looked like dark red ale. It tastes of bland watery malt with little bitterness and zero hop aroma. I used carbon filtered / bottled water. What could be causing this??
1 too vigorous boil
2 mash temp too high
3 water ph
Any ideas?
Thanks

 

[MickDundee]

What is your process for bottling? The change in colour and lack of hop flavour makes me think it might be oxidation. Are you getting any cardboard or Sherry flavours?

 

[Liam McDevitt]

What is your process for bottling? The change in colour and lack of hop flavour makes me think it might be oxidation. Are you getting any cardboard or Sherry flavours?

Hi,
It's the wort. It tastes crap long before bottling kegging. To the point where I know I can bin it before it matures. It's just far too dark. It should be light golden ipa style. It's murky dark brown. One beer did get oxidised I think but this latest beer is pressure fermented and its too be kegged tonight. Unless the co2 drastically improves the flavour its drainpour.

 

[An Ankoù]

My first 3 all grain beers have been far too dark. I'm using a 35l brewzilla. First batch was fine but second two were undrinkable. They were all ipa but looked like dark red ale. It tastes of bland watery malt with little bitterness and zero hop aroma. I used carbon filtered / bottled water. What could be causing this??
1 too vigorous boil
2 mash temp too high
3 water ph
Any ideas?
Thanks

Hi Liam. Sorry to hear of your woes. We need more info. Recipe, malt bill and hop charges, fermentation times, how long in bottle/kegs before tasting. As much info as you can give us. Imagine you're trying to tell us how to replicate this beer exactly.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi,
It's the wort. It tastes crap long before bottling kegging. To the point where I know I can bin it before it matures. It's just far too dark. It should be light golden ipa style. It's murky dark brown. One beer did get oxidised I think but this latest beer is pressure fermented and its too be kegged tonight. Unless the co2 drastically improves the flavour its drainpour.

Definitely need the exact recipe.

 

[Liam McDevitt]

Hi,
So is a single hop mosaic all ingredients kit from get er brewed. 5.44kg of basic malt profile which they do not disclose. No dry hopping. Adding to the boil at 60,45,30,etc
Fermented for 10 days.
The only thing I can think of is my temperature s not calibrated and wtoo high?

 

[MickDundee]

Hi,
So is a single hop mosaic all ingredients kit from get er brewed. 5.44kg of basic malt profile which they do not disclose. No dry hopping. Adding to the boil at 60,45,30,etc
Fermented for 10 days.
The only thing I can think of is my temperature s not calibrated and wtoo high?

If it’s one of the single hop GEB kits, a lot of people have had issues with this being much darker than anticipated.

I did it about 4 years ago and it was like that then. I’ve been struggling to find any more recent posts about it though.

 

[Liam McDevitt]

Really? That's good to know. I'm trying another kit tomorrow. It's a GEB xpa. Hopefully this will improve.

 

[An Ankoù]

I'd be reluctant to just throw it away. How long has it been fermenting? What were the original and final gravities? if the FG is as expected then your mash temperature is probably OK. it's unlikely you've got a badly oxidised been in so short a time. Especially if you've been reasonably careful. There's no need to pressure transfer everything into purged vessels. Stunningly great beer has been made since before oxidation became the fad of the month. Give it some time and see how it turns out. So it's darker than you would like, that doesn't mean it's going to be bad beer, it's just darker than you would like.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I messaged them before about it a few years back, and they said they were designed that way. Agreed that they are far too dark for what they are meant to be, but should still taste good. Does sound as though there is oxidation going on here too.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I'd be reluctant to just throw it away. How long has it been fermenting? What were the original and final gravities? if the FG is as expected then your mash temperature is probably OK. it's unlikely you've got a badly oxidised been in so short a time. Especially if you've been reasonably careful. There's no need to pressure transfer everything into purged vessels. Stunningly great beer has been made since before oxidation became the fad of the month. Give it some time and see how it turns out. So it's darker than you would like, that doesn't mean it's going to be bad beer, it's just darker than you would like.

Oxidation has only become more of an issue because of the large amounts of hops being increasingly used. It's definitely a big problem.

 

[Liam McDevitt]

Oxidation has only become more of an issue because of the large amounts of hops being increasingly used. It's definitely a big problem.

Il carb it up and see how it conditions anyway. Nothing to list at this stage. Thanks

 

[An Ankoù]

Oxidation has only become more of an issue because of the large amounts of hops being increasingly used. It's definitely a big problem.

Never been attracted by NEIPA and things that look like milkshake or orange juice, so I'll take your word for it.

 

[Liam McDevitt]

I messaged them before about it a few years back, and they said they were designed that way. Agreed that they are far too dark for what they are meant to be, but should still taste good. Does sound as though there is oxidation going on here too.

Was that all kits from geb or just the single hop ones?
My second batch definitely got oxidised. It was my fermenter.

 

[MickDundee]

Never been attracted by NEIPA and things that look like milkshake or orange juice, so I'll take your word for it.

One of my 2 beers that oxidised was a pseudo-Pilsner.

I know exactly how it got oxidised. I was a numpty trying out my Fermentasaurus - not under pressure - for the first time and changed the Collection bottle for an empty one after fermentation had finished. 500ml of air straight through the wort. Undrinkable pretty much from the moment I bottled it until I poured the whole lot out last summer (over a year later).

 

[An Ankoù]

One of my 2 beers that oxidised was a pseudo-Pilsner.

I know exactly how it got oxidised. I was a numpty trying out my Fermentasaurus - not under pressure - for the first time and changed the Collection bottle for an empty one after fermentation had finished. 500ml of air straight through the wort. Undrinkable pretty much from the moment I bottled it until I poured the whole lot out last summer (over a year later).

Horror of horrors. I hate wasting good beer, but if it's undrinkable there's little choice.
In spite of what I said earlier, I might do a small batch NEIPA just for the learning experience. Someone's bound to like it. Can anybody flag up a typical recipe?
I suppose the closest I've been to these hoppy beers is two batches of Moreton's Totally Tropical and another of the same but substituting the grain bill for my black IPA grain bill. Can't say I particularly liked the style of either of them, but our guests couldn't get enough. It's the "dank" hop flavour I don't like, but that comes from the hops, not oxidation.

 

[The Baron]

I would try a kit from somewhere else next or your own recipe on a simpler beer to see if it is something in your process then you can start to pin it down. If the beer turns out ok it sounds like the suppliers recipe if not you can start to break down your process and scrutinise it.
Ps do not pressure ferment just good old fashioned brewing as it could be that also.
You will need to keep us informed so that we may throw out suggestions and I am sure we will get to the bottom of it with the knowledge on here

 

[Liam McDevitt]

I would try a kit from somewhere else next or your own recipe on a simpler beer to see if it is something in your process then you can start to pin it down. If the beer turns out ok it sounds like the suppliers recipe if not you can start to break down your process and scrutinise it.
Ps do not pressure ferment just good old fashioned brewing as it could be that also.
You will need to keep us informed so that we may throw out suggestions and I am sure we will get to the bottom of it with the knowledge on here

OK il let you know. Thanks

 

[Liam McDevitt]

I'd be reluctant to just throw it away. How long has it been fermenting? What were the original and final gravities? if the FG is as expected then your mash temperature is probably OK. it's unlikely you've got a badly oxidised been in so short a time. Especially if you've been reasonably careful. There's no need to pressure transfer everything into purged vessels. Stunningly great beer has been made since before oxidation became the fad of the month. Give it some time and see how it turns out. So it's darker than you would like, that doesn't mean it's going to be bad beer, it's just darker than you would like.

FG was 1.006 it should have been 1.010. OG was 1.047 it should have been 1.050

 

[The Baron]

I know you may of heard this before but when beers sometimes go below there projected FG it can mean a infection but lower FG's do not always mean that. Just trying to cover all bases for you. Good Luck