Wort not flowing through the grain bed

[Empty bottle]

Hi folks i done a grain kit from GEB called Massey red ale on Thursday night. Put the grain into the basket and stirred it in with no lumps etc. When i started circulating the wort then soon discovered that it would not flow through the grain bed to circulate. There was very little wort coming through the bottom of the basket so i could not circulate the wort so just let it sit and mash without circulating the wort. It was the same when sparging when i had my basket sitting above the urn and pouring over the sparge water there very little was making its way through the grain bed into the urn below. This is the first time i have had this problem and was just wandering if it was down to certain grains in the recipe which was 4.8kg best ale 350g wheat 175g x2 light and medium crystal and 100g chocolate. This is the first time ive brewed a recipe with wheat in it, would that cause this to happen? cheers

 

[An Ankoù]

You've got a set mash. Only thing to do is stir the grain bed to break it up and then try sparing again. If it were me, I'd shovel it all into bucket, wash to basket, put a brewing bag in the basket and shovel it all back in. They grain is possible ground too fine and it may set again. The bag allows you to pull and tug and break it all up again.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What was your water volume to grain weight ratio?

 

[Empty bottle]

What was your water volume to grain weight ratio?

i used 16l of water so roughly 3 - 1

 

[Empty bottle]

You've got a set mash. Only thing to do is stir the grain bed to break it up and then try sparing again. If it were me, I'd shovel it all into bucket, wash to basket, put a brewing bag in the basket and shovel it all back in. They grain is possible ground too fine and it may set again. The bag allows you to pull and tug and break it all up again.

That's what i had to do as my grain basket is a plastic bucket with holes in the bottom and 3 legs fitted to keep the bucket up from the base of the urn and a mesh bag fitted inside the bucket. So i had to keep jiggling the bag to get any wort to flow through it. Any other brew i have done in the past this has not been a problem and its circulated without any issue. Yes that would make sense if the grain was crushed to fine clogging up both the bag and the grain bed. I just buy the grain crushed from the suppliers so i have no way of telling how crushed it is. At least it was not a big problem and my brew is now bubbling away very nicely on the kitchen floor.

 

[The Baron]

I think AA has got it right if you are getting a stuck mash stir it but it may just set again so do what is a BIAB method so you can for the want of a word jiggle the bag.
175g of wheat would not really be enough generally to cause a stuck mash but be aware larger amounts of wheat and rye does contribute to a stuck none flowing mash. It does sound like the crush is too fine and floury which will cause the sticking.
If you buy more kits from GEB and the crush looks too fine/floury add some oat or rice husks to create some separation of the grains

 

[Empty bottle]

I think AA has got it right if you are getting a stuck mash stir it but it may just set again so do what is a BIAB method so you can for the want of a word jiggle the bag.
175g of wheat would not really be enough generally to cause a stuck mash but be aware larger amounts of wheat and rye does contribute to a stuck none flowing mash. It does sound like the crush is too fine and floury which will cause the sticking.
If you buy more kits from GEB and the crush looks too fine/floury add some oat or rice husks to create some separation of the grains

Cool yes jiggling saved the day or as we say in Scotland a right good shoogle.
I take it that the husks you mention simply create a pathway for the wort to flow through and don't add flavours etc.

 

[The Baron]

Yes that is correct they create pathways to volumise the mash grains for better flow.
Being from up north/Scotland beware of using loads of oats too unless you take precautions as they are well known for sticking the mash aswell

 

[foxy]

Hi folks i done a grain kit from GEB called Massey red ale on Thursday night. Put the grain into the basket and stirred it in with no lumps etc. When i started circulating the wort then soon discovered that it would not flow through the grain bed to circulate. There was very little wort coming through the bottom of the basket so i could not circulate the wort so just let it sit and mash without circulating the wort. It was the same when sparging when i had my basket sitting above the urn and pouring over the sparge water there very little was making its way through the grain bed into the urn below. This is the first time i have had this problem and was just wandering if it was down to certain grains in the recipe which was 4.8kg best ale 350g wheat 175g x2 light and medium crystal and 100g chocolate. This is the first time ive brewed a recipe with wheat in it, would that cause this to happen? cheers

I don't think it is the grain bill which is your problem, what size holes have you drilled in your grain basket? Normally folk go for either one or the other, a malt pipe or bag, not both, unless you have large holes drilled in your malt pipe.

 

[An Ankoù]

On a general, but related matter. I've never really understood how brew-in-a-bag and fly sparging a mash tie up. If I understand aright, biab uses the full volume of water required for the kettle or boil volume. After the mash, the bag is hoisted and drained and given a bit of a squeeze and the murky wort isn't filtered, but is boiled as it is. With the fly sparge, the wort is recirculated until it runs clear and then the required volume of clear wort is boiled.
Have I got this right?
Does it make a difference to the quality of the beer and, if not, why do we recirculate?
Thanks in advance for any clarification (no pun intended) of the matter.

 

[The Baron]

You are correct AA BIAB is no sparge and full volume but some brewers do hold back some water to kettle sparge the bag once mashed I think it is a go between the 2 methods

 

[Agentgonzo]

If I understand aright, biab uses the full volume of water required for the kettle or boil volume. After the mash, the bag is hoisted and drained and given a bit of a squeeze and the murky wort isn't filtered, but is boiled as it is. With the fly sparge, the wort is recirculated until it runs clear and then the required volume of clear wort is boiled.
Have I got this right?

Yes, but BIAB doesn't necessarily need the full volume of mash water. You can do it in a smaller volume of water, then "dunk sparge" (ie. Dunk the bag into fresh water, give it a good old sir, then hoist the bag out and combine the worts). But most people do BIAB with full volume mashing for simplicity.

Does it make a difference to the quality of the beer and, if not, why do we recirculate?

It doesn't appear to make a perceptible difference of the quality of the beer - otherwise people probably wouldn't do it. The cloudy wort quickly clears up in the boil anyway.

Homebrew has historically just been a scaled down clone of commercial breweries, and we do what we do because commercial breweries do what they do. My best guess is that recirculation filters out gunk and you end up with less trub in the bottom of the kettle, so can easily transfer more wort into the fermenter and you brewing process is more efficient (profitable).
For us homebrewers where efficiency/profit aren't as important, we just leave more trub in the bottom of the kettle.

 

[Empty bottle]

I don't think it is the grain bill which is your problem, what size holes have you drilled in your grain basket? Normally folk go for either one or the other, a malt pipe or bag, not both, unless you have large holes drilled in your malt pipe.

No its got nothing to do with the holes as i have never had this happen before with previous brews. The holes are 6mm and lots of them.

 

[Empty bottle]

On a general, but related matter. I've never really understood how brew-in-a-bag and fly sparging a mash tie up. If I understand aright, biab uses the full volume of water required for the kettle or boil volume. After the mash, the bag is hoisted and drained and given a bit of a squeeze and the murky wort isn't filtered, but is boiled as it is. With the fly sparge, the wort is recirculated until it runs clear and then the required volume of clear wort is boiled.
Have I got this right?
Does it make a difference to the quality of the beer and, if not, why do we recirculate?
Thanks in advance for any clarification (no pun intended) of the matter.

I noticed a big difference in the clarity of the wort and the amount of gunk left at the bottom of my urn on this brew because it wasn't circulated through the grain bed. I have fitted a clear tube on my urn to use for checking the wort levels and you can see what a difference it makes in clarity circulating the wort. Does it make the beer taste any better probably not who knows but it certainly looks better. I know that if you put 2 pints down in front of me and one was nice and clear with a lovely amber colour and the other one was cloudy and murky looking then i know what pint i would choose.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I noticed a big difference in the clarity of the wort...

Have you found that the clarity of the wort affects the clarity of the resulting beer? Many (though not exclusively) have found there is no correlation. In fact, some have found the opposite is true. . (Accounts differ, I'm not saying one is right/wrong)

 

[Empty bottle]

Have you found that the clarity of the wort affects the clarity of the resulting beer? Many (though not exclusively) have found there is no correlation. In fact, some have found the opposite is true. . (Accounts differ, I'm not saying one is right/wrong)

Its not something that i have ever paid much attention too as all my previous brews have went smoothly and circulated through the grain bed with no issues. It was just because this last brew did not go to plan and wouldn't circulate that there was a noticeable difference in clarity after the mash. After the boil and cooled down it looked clear enough but i suppose the proof will be in the pudding when it has been bottled and conditioned and poured into a glass in a few weeks time.

 

[foxy]

No its got nothing to do with the holes as i have never had this happen before with previous brews. The holes are 6mm and lots of them.

Usually brew in a bag will either mash full volume or at least a very liquid mash. This way when you get grain which is finely ground it isn't going to cause you a problem. Plus there is no need to recirculate the wort for BIAB

 

[Empty bottle]

Usually brew in a bag will either mash full volume or at least a very liquid mash. This way when you get grain which is finely ground it isn't going to cause you a problem. Plus there is no need to recirculate the wort for BIAB

I am not doing it as a boil in the bag. The mesh bag is simply fitted inside the bucket to prevent the grains from going into the pump and blocking it up or block the nozzle on the top that sprays the circulating wort on top of the grain bed. I have the urn with the bucket inside the urn with 3 legs fitted on the bottom of the bucket keeping it around 8cm up from the base of the urn and the pump fitted on the outlet valve on the urn pumping the wart up to the lid of the urn which is fitted with a spray nozzle to spay evenly on top of the grain bed that is inside the bucket. So when the mash is finished its very easy to lift the bucket up and i have a stainless grill that sits on top of the urn then i can sit the bucket on the grill for sparging. Very simple and very effective.

 

[foxy]

I am not doing it as a boil in the bag. The mesh bag is simply fitted inside the bucket to prevent the grains from going into the pump and blocking it up or block the nozzle on the top that sprays the circulating wort on top of the grain bed. I have the urn with the bucket inside the urn with 3 legs fitted on the bottom of the bucket keeping it around 8cm up from the base of the urn and the pump fitted on the outlet valve on the urn pumping the wart up to the lid of the urn which is fitted with a spray nozzle to spay evenly on top of the grain bed that is inside the bucket. So when the mash is finished its very easy to lift the bucket up and i have a stainless grill that sits on top of the urn then i can sit the bucket on the grill for sparging. Very simple and very effective.

Looks like you know better than me, I will leave it there.

 

[Pennine]

Did you mill this yourself or did GEB do it? Could be a crush issue. I would pick up some rice hulls for next time, or if you are milling try pre-conditioning it, has been helping my brewer with slow flow.