Wort Chiller - Is it really necessary?

[samale]

I use a 23litre cheap fermenting bucket with no airlock hole on the lid. It has a tap at the bottom

 

[The Baron]

Another tip Terry make sure you get a Cube nearest the amount you brew for as they do come in different sizes 20l 25l etc as you want to fill it so you can squeeze what remaining air there is out and then screw the cap on so virtually no air in it. I just use my FV but make sure everything is scrupulously clean/sterile and put the lid on straight away and airlock. Some brewers also put clingfilm over it then the lid on also

 

[terrym]

Thanks folks.
I have a Hamilton Bard PB I was given which is useless as a PB because I can't get the cap to seal. But I could use it as a no chill cube I suppose, provided I made sure it didn't draw a vacuum as it cools and then pulled itself in (like the other PB recently discussed on here), which is why I like the cling film over the cap idea which will pull in to stop that happening, as well as keeping the nasties out. Plus it has a bottom tap, is big enough, and is food safe. The downside is it will have air in it which I can't eliminate, but since I beat my wort for a short time to inject air before I pitch the yeast I can't imagine that being too much of a problem

 

[Gerryjo]

As always it's each to their own. I am always up for a beer swap with you so called chiller's
Our if you really want to push your OCD to the limit. I have a no boil no chill oat meal stout for you to try.

I take it that's the one I have the oatmeal.



I do both chill and no chill depending on the mood or if I have participated in a few HB at which I can't be bothered and find no difference as long as everything has been cleaned and sanitised but I do transfer right after boil to both sterilise my FV and minimise bacterial contact. I have also chilled in a cube on quite a few occasions and kept wort for a month before pitching as I had forgot about it and no infections, oxidisation and a damn good blonde ale came out of it.
At the end of the day you would need to try to see which works best.

 

[HeavensBrew]

All good replies. However, I also asked a question about conditioning temperatures post fermentation and carbonation as a separate thread. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

The thread is called "Conditioning at 12C or 4C... Whats the difference?"

At some point I will be able to answer question rather than ask them!

 

[The Baron]

I think the confusion with conditioning is that it can mean 2 things
1. when you keg or bottle after fermentation you will generally need to carbonate with co2 (from a co2 cylinder)in a keg which can be done at generally your serving temp but with bottles you will be adding sugar to re-ferment in the bottle and make the co2 to carbonate it - this should generally be done at fermentation temperature for approx 2 weeks
2. Conditioning can also mean the maturation of the beer which is done after the re-fermentation stage of bottling and done generally at the serving temperature of each style of beer or as near as you can, this lower temperature especially with kegs will allow the co2 to dissolve into the beer.

So to get a rough idea just do a search for the serving temp of the beer style you are making and you will not go far wrong but this is only a guide and some people prefer there beers cooler or warmer than the text book temps you will find out which suits you best over time

 

[Duxuk]

My experience, having read virtually non of this thread, is that no chill beers are a waste of good hops. No doubt you can make decent beer and I did no chill for years but if you want a good late hopped taste you’re going to need to cool the wort or the alpha acids will keep isomerising. It’s impossible to get the same hop flavours and aromas. Commercial brewers cool the wort for a reason. We may be able to brew better beers at home but not everyone can.

 

[Clint]

Seems to be quite a defined yay or nay for the chiller...
Even if you don't really need or want one you should get one as it looks exciting and impressive to any wannabe home brewers that might come round being nosey...then you can sell it them.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

To sum up:

Can you make good beer without chilling the wort? YES
Does chilling your wort in order to pitch it rapidly reduce the risk of spoilage? YES

What is the PROBABILITY of the spoilage risk without chilling, given good hygiene precautions? LOW
What is the potential IMPACT of the spoilage risk, if it occurs? HIGH

As (until recently) a corporate risk manager in a large international business I must agree with @DocAnna's comment above:

This is all about risk reduction/mitigation. As with all risks many people will not see the risk become an issue due to the low frequency of the risk, but that doesn't mean the risk doesn't exist. ie just because you haven't had a problem with no chill doesn't mean it's not a risk.

At low probabilities the magnitude of a risk, and the corresponding control measures, must be judged based on the potential impact.

This is not to say that anyone who doesn't chill their wort is wrong or irresponsible. It's a personal choice.

 

[foxy]

I think it should be looked at from another perspective instead of putting up imaginary hurdles.
DMS with a good boil and modern day grains practically eliminated, the fermentation will reduce it even further. Whether using chill or no chill.
Botulism! People have died or have been seriously ill from eating foil wrapped baked potato, home made jams, home canned fruit.
How many home brewers have died or become seriously ill from botulism? None. Nothing to do with rapid cooling and pitching of yeast. Its not so long ago home brewers would tip the hot wort into an earthen ware bread crock to cool overnight before inoculating the wort with a yeast infected stick which was kept in a jar by the door.
What about all the cool ship brewers? And those home brew shops and breweries producing FWK's? What we have in our favour which none of the above have? (the canners and jam makers) The boil, and most importantly the hops.
As long as the wort is cubed hot and the air squeezed out of the cube or filled to the brim then it is fine.
I have often cooled my wort down to 40 C and left overnight, the kettle is sterile from the boil a spray of sanitiser around the lid then cling film. The only reason I take these precautions is I am in spitting distance of a peach tree and numerous apple and pear trees. And my main concern is wild yeast from the fruit.

 

[JT_Brews]

What is the PROBABILITY of the spoilage risk without chilling, given good hygiene precautions? LOW
What is the potential IMPACT of the spoilage risk, if it occurs? HIGH

I understand what you're saying here but I don't think you assessment is accurate. I would classify it as 'very low' and 'moderate' respectively*. If I lose 1 in 100 batches that would be a minor annoyance, brewing a 20 litre batch costs me very little money and very little time partly due to to time-saving measures like no-chill.

It also misses the cost of taking preventative measures which for me counts as 'moderate' since it's the only time during the process where I have to stand next the kettle and get in trouble with my wife for not doing whatever I should be doing at that moment. Obviously others see the cost as minimal and that would affect their conclusions.

* this reminds me of a section in the book 'Superforecasters' where the U.S. intelligence analysts use terms like 'low chance' and later realise that the politicians reading the briefs have radically different perceptions about what that actually means.

 

[Dro]

Hi Dro it only applies really to beers that are boiled mainly All grain and some extract recipes that are boiled. It does generally not apply to standard can kits which are mixed with a little hot water and then topped up with cold to your pitching temp

Thanks for the reply, its been crossing my mind more and more to try brewing from scratch.

 

[JT_Brews]

Thanks for the reply, its been crossing my mind more and more to try brewing from scratch.

Don't daunted by it (or all the arguing about process :) ). BIAB in particular is dead simple, there's just a little bit of a learning curve to get it straight in your head. Use an app like Brewfather for your recipes.

 

[HeavensBrew]

So I guess no one ghetto chills using frozen 2l bottles like me then? 3 2l bottles in my 20l pot, and an ice Bath in the sink does the trick

Your ghetto chilling system might be a winner. Out tap water here is never that cold here anyway and warm in the summer.

Skipping the icebath, how long do you think 3 frozen x 1.5l bottles will take to get the temperature down to +/-20C?

 

[Buffers brewery]

My sums tell me you’ll need around 18 kg of sanitized bottles of frozen water to get 22 litres of wort from 100C to 20C.

 

[Mrhandsome]

My sums tell me you’ll need around 18 kg of sanitized bottles of frozen water to get 22 litres of wort from 100C to 20C.

We don't do sums in the ghetto

I only do 10l brews and 3 2l bottles and the ice Bath get it down within 30 to 45 mins usually, I tried it with 2 bottles and it took forever. For 20l I'd go for 6-7 bottles, but then you need freezer space to freeze them first.

 

[Buffers brewery]

We don't do sums in the ghetto

I only do 10l brews and 3 2l bottles and the ice Bath get it down within 30 to 45 mins usually, I tried it with 2 bottles and it took forever. For 20l I'd go for 6-7 bottles, but then you need freezer space to freeze them first.

My sums say 10 litres of boiling wort will need 8 litres of frozen water, a.k.a. ice to get to 20C, no ice bath

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

My sums say 10 litres of boiling wort will need 8 litres of frozen water, a.k.a. ice to get to 20C, no ice bath

Did you include the specific latent heat of fusion, and the initial temperature of the ice (prob. about -10ºc) ? :-)

 

[Mrhandsome]

What about when you're brewing on a cold and gray Chicago mornin'?

 

[Mrhandsome]

(in the ghetto)