Worst efficiency ever?

[Alside101]

I bought a lager ag kit and did not realise that the grains were un crushed so i blitzed in the blender and brewed a 3% lager that was suposesto be 5.5%

 

[foxbat]

I think I'm trying to do is a full volume mash BIAB and recirculate from the tap in the Klarstein back into the top of the thing... is that what normal people do?!

That sounds more or less what a grainfather does so the process itself ought to be sound.

 

[Zephyr259]

That sounds more or less what a grainfather does so the process itself ought to be sound.

Same idea except a grainfather isn't a full volume mash. Think the process of full volume BIAB is called something like maxi-biab. Fairly sure folks on her have discussed it before.

 

[AdeDunn]

Ah thanks Dutto, but also i'm sorry as i'm probably confusing us all!

What I think I'm trying to do is a full volume mash BIAB and recirculate from the tap in the Klarstein back into the top of the thing... is that what normal people do?!

I have a pretty good idea what you mean though, as I did it with my old ACE, before it burned out on me:-



I simply replaced the screw on hose barb on the tap with a male quick disconnect fitting. Then 2 90 degree elbows screwed onto the bump, a mini tap on the out of the pump to control flow etc etc. I chose to drill the lid as ACE had already gone bump at that point, so no warranty to worry about at that point.

I didn't go to eBay or Amazon etc for the pump though, I bought a TS5 mini-mag pump off Brew-Builder, and I have NO regrets! It may have been more expensive, but was worth every penny! One big difference between these and the cheap pumps (apart from the stainless steel BSP fittings) is the impellers. The cheapo pumps the impellers are prone to gunking up and sticking, the TS5 though has a HUGE open impeller that is nearly impossible to block up:-



The next step up from the TS5 is the TD5, then a Chugger and so on.

As to process, I would recirculate during the mash (keeps temps right, tip if you use rice hulls you can really open up the pump more) then at the end of the mash I'd run off from the boiler to an empty FV. I'd then sparge by hand into the grain, then recirculate this for about 20 minutes too, giving me lovely clear run off from this too, then add this to the FV. This way, I could measure how much wort I had going back into the boil too. I could also clean any flour that ended up in the bottom of the boiler from the mash BEFORE the boil, so it didn't end up scorching onto the element. Then I'd just put the wort back in for the boil.

This gave me MUCH clearer wort than normal BIAB did for sure, even if it was more work.



That pic was the wort from my last brew ever on my ACE, it packed up 5 minutes before the end of boiling it. lol

 

[Henders]

Thanks chaps, and thanks Ade. That feels like what I'm after, and a link to somewhere to get a decent one is what I really wanted :).

I think given the Klarstein has that metal sheath that the bag fits into, I can winch it up (I mean getting a pulley was half the attraction of this whole thing!) high enough that I can sparge clean water through without having to empty the kettle first. Then I get boiling.

So far I'd only considered doing full volume, but depending on amounts involved I might be tempted to try the above.

 

[AdeDunn]

The problem with doing true full volume, you're hugely limited to how much you can get into the FV by the size of the boiler, they're so darned small! I have the same problem with my current boiler, and that's actually bigger than my old ACE and the Klarsteins... lol So I always cheat.

 

[Dutto]

............

........., it packed up 5 minutes before the end of boiling it. lol

I feel your pain! I ran out of propane gas 50% into a boil; on a Sunday in winter!

"Stable door." and "after the horse bolted." obviously applies; but I now have TWO bottles!

PS

That impeller is impressive!

 

[ChrisRedWills]

I've just started ag using the biab method my first two attempts my efficiency was low but my third attempt was much better I put that down to milling the grains finer as I've just got a bulldog malt mill the og target was 1047 I got 1052 and ended up with just over 20 litres in the fv the target was 19 litres so was well happy i did sparge with 3 litres of 80c water and also dunk sparged and squeezed the mother out of it

 

[Covrich]

The problem with doing true full volume, you're hugely limited to how much you can get into the FV by the size of the boiler, they're so darned small! I have the same problem with my current boiler, and that's actually bigger than my old ACE and the Klarsteins... lol So I always cheat.

I think the trick with full volume is to have a vessel at least twice the capacity of what you want to put into the FV.. Otherwise you end up messing about with alterations topping up or boiling in another vessel or having a sparge.. All of which is fine but mitigates the point and simplicity of doing the full volume.

edit perhaps I am being a bit OTT with twice but it does allow you freedome to brew what you want. if you want to get 20L+ in the FV you'll need a 40+L preferably 50l

 

[AdeDunn]

I think the trick with full volume is to have a vessel at least twice the capacity of what you want to put into the FV.. Otherwise you end up messing about with alterations topping up or boiling in another vessel or having a sparge.. All of which is fine but mitigates the point and simplicity of doing the full volume.

edit perhaps I am being a bit OTT with twice but it does allow you freedome to brew what you want. if you want to get 20L+ in the FV you'll need a 40+L preferably 50l

I quite agree, I was frustrated by the tiny size of my ACE, and am still frustrated by the size of my 33 litre. I was hoping to eventually add something like a 50 litre Brew Devil to my kit, but that's looking unlikely now, so I've switched my hopes to hoping to get a 50 litre stock pot that I can convert to a bigger boiler. I already have a controller now that I could use for mashing control, I'd just need to use a different lead for the boil (as a 50 litre pan would need a 3kw element, which would likely overload the cables and fuses on my controller when ran at full power, but would be fine run at reduce power via my build in power regulator. ).

They're been a bit misleading with things like the Klarstein mash tun boilers, when they claim you can get a 23 litre batch out of them, as usually the max fill line is 27 litres.... Heck, my 33 litre kit I can just about cope with a mash volume of 27 litres (higher and I risk a tiny bit of dribbling from the wicking effect between the lid and bag), and a boil volume of slightly over 29 litres. It's ok if you like really weak beer I guess... I tend to brew nothing below about 4.2%, more often around the 5% mark though... So I use tricks to get extra volume, the best of which so far has been the cold water dunk sparge (gave me 6.6 litres of liquor with an SG of 1.030, which is far better than 6.6 litres of water any day....). It's scary when you first start brewing though, you see all these DIY builds with people wiring up elements etc and you think "eek! If I try that I'll end up burning my house down!", then you see what looks like a really cool bit of equipment, all ready to use and purpose built for the job, and ooh it says it'll produce 23 litres of beer just like the kits, ooh and the price isn't bad either! Then you get it home and discover you bought a glorified tea urn that can barely manage 18 litres of a decent strength beer unless you start learning volume enhancing tricks... Suddenly you've learned so many of these tricks, you decide to add some of that sweet re-circulation to get that nice clear wort going into the boil... It works! DIY rocks! Then that kit you bought breaks, so you decide to build your own finally, possibly using the little 33 litre stock pot you TRIED to brew with on the stove when you first started out (only to find you couldn't get a rolling boil....). Then you end up wishing you'd bought a bigger one, cus now you have to persuade your wife to let you buy a larger one, and a more powerful element, oh and a new false bottom to fit... Oh yeah, and 2 new taps so you can leave the ones you already have on your 33 litre so you'll have 2 boilers (I haven't mentioned that bit to her yet)....

I think the tl;dr here is probably: go large, brew smaller volumes, or learn how to do volume adjustments. Oh yeah, and welcome to the addiction...

 

[Covrich]

I quite agree, I was frustrated by the tiny size of my ACE, and am still frustrated by the size of my 33 litre. I was hoping to eventually add something like a 50 litre Brew Devil to my kit, but that's looking unlikely now, so I've switched my hopes to hoping to get a 50 litre stock pot that I can convert to a bigger boiler. I already have a controller now that I could use for mashing control, I'd just need to use a different lead for the boil (as a 50 litre pan would need a 3kw element, which would likely overload the cables and fuses on my controller when ran at full power, but would be fine run at reduce power via my build in power regulator. ).

They're been a bit misleading with things like the Klarstein mash tun boilers, when they claim you can get a 23 litre batch out of them, as usually the max fill line is 27 litres.... Heck, my 33 litre kit I can just about cope with a mash volume of 27 litres (higher and I risk a tiny bit of dribbling from the wicking effect between the lid and bag), and a boil volume of slightly over 29 litres. It's ok if you like really weak beer I guess... I tend to brew nothing below about 4.2%, more often around the 5% mark though... So I use tricks to get extra volume, the best of which so far has been the cold water dunk sparge (gave me 6.6 litres of liquor with an SG of 1.030, which is far better than 6.6 litres of water any day....). It's scary when you first start brewing though, you see all these DIY builds with people wiring up elements etc and you think "eek! If I try that I'll end up burning my house down!", then you see what looks like a really cool bit of equipment, all ready to use and purpose built for the job, and ooh it says it'll produce 23 litres of beer just like the kits, ooh and the price isn't bad either! Then you get it home and discover you bought a glorified tea urn that can barely manage 18 litres of a decent strength beer unless you start learning volume enhancing tricks... Suddenly you've learned so many of these tricks, you decide to add some of that sweet re-circulation to get that nice clear wort going into the boil... It works! DIY rocks! Then that kit you bought breaks, so you decide to build your own finally, possibly using the little 33 litre stock pot you TRIED to brew with on the stove when you first started out (only to find you couldn't get a rolling boil....). Then you end up wishing you'd bought a bigger one, cus now you have to persuade your wife to let you buy a larger one, and a more powerful element, oh and a new false bottom to fit... Oh yeah, and 2 new taps so you can leave the ones you already have on your 33 litre so you'll have 2 boilers (I haven't mentioned that bit to her yet)....

I think the tl;dr here is probably: go large, brew smaller volumes, or learn how to do volume adjustments. Oh yeah, and welcome to the addiction...

I think you're right, when I got my Ace I was amazed at how small the actual pot was, sadly I never got a good use out of it.. it blew up during its firt mash and I had to do a rescue job on my itchen with every pot avialble and sent it back. Its why I went down the 50l and gas route..

I do lift the bag during heating catch the drain and pour it back over when I mash ut but other than that I don't recirculate..

What I found which gave really clear wort at least for the first 17 or so liters from the ball tap (I probably dont leave it long enough to settle) is using good thicker and stronger bag and not a cheap pain strainer.

The only thing I would say about full volume is and it depends on how you do it.. I normally fill the water up the night before and treat it in the kitchen and move the pot but thats 35kg which is a fair weight and bulk to shift about by yourself

 

[AdeDunn]

Yeah, I've bought a new bag myself. Still a cheap one, but this one is more rigid and doesn't let as much flour through as my first one. Means I have to have the pump flow set lower, but given the good insulation I have on the pot I believe this to be a small sacrifice for a better behaved bag and clearer wort. lol With my current process, getting clear wort using the re-circulation would be a pointless exercise anyway, as the minute you lift the bag that all changes. Re-circulation to get clear wort, you need to drain the wort away from the bag, rather than lift the bag out of the wort, as the flexible nature of bags causes squeezing whilst you lift which guarantees a bit of fine matter gets back into your wort again whilst lifting. Obviously not an issue with machines that use a metal basket, as the basket doesn't squeeze.

 

[BeerCat]

Hey, this sparge malarky, do you use the pumps like these?

Oh! More likely these yeah?

I use on of these. I have been through 4 cheap pumps and lost my temper many times. Get a decent one.