Why don't commercial brewers bottle condition?

[Asalpaws]

I was mowing the lawn today, I had chilled a bottle of Oktoberfest I made last year, I was about to throw the batch out but thought I should sample one. Wow what a change from six months ago when I last had a bottle, now it tastes like a malty, clean lager. The cloying taste of Munich malt has dissipated.

This has happened to me a few times now and is a good lesson in patience.

What I don't get is why commercial breweries don't need vast warehouses for bottle conditioning (most don't bottle condition at all).

Is it using much more and healthier yeast? Are they massively over pitching to ferment faster? Time is money.

Any thoughts T

 

[PD]

Todays beer drinking generation don't want " dirty " beers. They connect cloudy beers with being bad beers.



and they also like to drink from the bottle., because there mam and dad didn't clout them hard enough on the ear when they did it at home.



they are wrong, but as they seem to be the industries driving engine, so beer lovers suffer.

 

[graysalchemy]

Its cheaper and gets a more consistent repeatable result which is what it is all about in this day and age.

 

[Asalpaws]

If Carling made a 10 % Imperial Stout(would be preferable to special brew) would it still need months to condition or do they have short cuts that scale can exploit?

 

[Dr Mike]

I think what the OP is asking is why commercial beers don't need long bottle ageing before being ready to drink.

Commercial breweries give their filtered bottled beers some ageing in bulk before bottling (I read somewhere that ESB gets 4 weeks). I think the reason they generally don't need long ageing is better fermentation (correct pitching rate & temperature control) and they generally brew recipes that don't need ageing. There are some exceptions - Fullers 1845 is kept for at least 100 days from bottling it before it is released.

Assuming it is a proper Imperial Stout, the need for age is a result of the recipe. Lots of roast malt and lots of hops. I could imagine Carling being able to come up with a black beer at 10% ABV which could go on sale quickly but it wouldn't be proper Imperial Stout.

 

[calumscott]

and they also like to drink from the bottle., because there mam and dad didn't clout them hard enough on the ear when they did it at home.

PD. Sometimes, just sometimes, you are priceless! :rofl: :thumb:

 

[Asalpaws]

PD makes a good point, I will be a father for the first time in January. Naturally it will be a few years before they can have a beer but it's interesting how you could mould their relationship to alcohol.

I would prefer they discuss the nuances of a artisanal ale with their Dad than swilling white lightning down the park?

 

[PD]

Sorry....bottle drinking is my pet hate.......

Pouring a nice beer into a suitable glas is part of the pleasure and sets us apart from the Neaderthals.

 

[Asalpaws]

Oh I totally agree, a glass can have a dramatic effect on beer or wine. I hate seeing people waste a finite liver cells on cheap booze from a bottle, maybe even white lightning is improved by the correct glass. T

 

[nicknoxx]

Wye Valley Brewery do bottle conditioned beers.

 

[winelight]

Many bottled conditioned beers are available. Most supermarket chains stock them but sometimes only one or two. Last time I looked in a Co-op they only had one, for example. I seem to remember seeing more in places like Tesco. The problem is that you generally have to read the small print on every single label in the shop before you find them, they don't have a separate section, and the "bottle-conditioned" bit on the labels doesn't always stand out.

(edit) Or of course you can go to the bottled beer bar at any CAMRA beer festival.

 

[Sandimas]

I used to buy a couple of bottle conditioned ales before I started homebrewing, but more often than not they'd be too lively and foam out of the bottle as soon as it was openned. Be lucky to get 1/2 pint remaining :shock:

The brewers seemed to struggle to get consistency, this has never happened with any of my brews so wonder if they just bottled too early or over-primed?

 

[Moley]

Wye Valley Brewery do bottle conditioned beers.

They do indeed, and I've successfully used their yeasties in a couple of my own brews.

A reminder for anyone in the area (brewery is between Hereford and Bromyard), they've got an open day a week on Saturday, October 19th.

Here's a PDF poster for anyone who's interested.

 

[PaulCa]

I watched the Guinness Mega Factory on Sky and they were pushing to get the St. Patrick's day brew out the door for the start of March. I think it was something like 3-4 weeks from when the malt arrived on the tipper to when the beer left on the lorry.

They didn't go into too much detail, but it seems that everything they can possibly do to limit the need for aging is done.

 

[stuey]

I used to buy a couple of bottle conditioned ales before I started homebrewing, but more often than not they'd be too lively and foam out of the bottle as soon as it was openned. Be lucky to get 1/2 pint remaining :shock:

The brewers seemed to struggle to get consistency, this has never happened with any of my brews so wonder if they just bottled too early or over-primed?

I don't know whether you used to buy your beers direct from the brewery or from retail outlets. I bet you treat your bottled beers as carefully as I do and get great results because of it?

Something to consider though is how the bottles get treated AFTER they leave the brewery.

A friend of mine runs a micro. He sells a small number of bottle conditioned beers. He follows the same regime that we do at home. Batch priming for consistency. In the warm for 2 weeks. Into the cold store at 12 degrees for a few weeks/months to settle, mature, sediment to pack down.
It is once the bottle leave him and go to the shops that the problems start to occur.

Prime example. The deli in his town went mad to stock his beers. He explained they are bottle conditioned and thus need to be stored reasonably cool ideally no more than 14 degrees and displayed in a similar manner. Every time he goes in to the shop to deliver stock he finds the beers on the top shelf of the display unit almost in the window getting a decent dose of sunshine and heat. The result? the deli customers moan they keep getting gushers and not just from bottles of his beer. The shop have still not changed the positioning of the beers they stock. It is entirely the Deli's poor handling of the beer that is causing the problem.

We are all guilty at times of blaming the brewer but more often than not the problems have all occurred after the brewer has delivered the product and handed over responsibility.

Another example..... better half and I went for a pub lunch on a lovely sunny afternoon no more than three weeks ago. As we walked into the pub I spotted an unopened cask of beer from my mates micro sat outside. Chatted to the landlord and he said "oh yeah.. your mate was here delivering that cask about 2 hours ago.... you've not long missed him!"
So time wise :

Midday cask delivered.
2pm we walk in for lunch.
4pm we leave pub and landlord locks up and goes for a snooze before opening at 7pm

Sun shining. Cask sat outside in blazing sunshine from midday until maybe 6pm when landlord remembered to bring it in?

I know that the cask would have been in peak condition when it was loaded onto the drey that morning and delivered to that pub.... My pal would have offered to have put cask straight into the cellar...
I can only imagine what effect 5 or 6 hours sat in the sun will have had on it!?!?!?

And I bet it was all the breweries fault that the beer was off!

Not ranting at anyone at all.... just trying to present a different viewpoint on things :) :thumb:


This lack of control once the product leaves the brewery may also be a reason why many breweries don't do bottle conditioned beers and stick to filtered and carb'd.

 

[rpt]

Next door to Carling is the Worthington brewery where they make White Shield, which is bottle conditioned. They are both owned by Molson Coors.

 

[stuey]

Next door to Carling is the Worthington brewery where they make White Shield, which is bottle conditioned. They are both owned by Molson Coors.

I am guessing that they either filter or centrifuge before re-inoculating their bottled beer with a measured quantity of yeast thus ensuring a consistent level of condition?

 

[JKaranka]

A lot of the beer I buy is bottle conditioned: Belgian ales, Otley, Partizan, Ilkley, The Kernel, Arbor Ales, etc. I guess some of those will occasionally force carbonate.

 

[Dr Mike]

Next door to Carling is the Worthington brewery where they make White Shield, which is bottle conditioned. They are both owned by Molson Coors.

I am guessing that they either filter or centrifuge before re-inoculating their bottled beer with a measured quantity of yeast thus ensuring a consistent level of condition?

I can't speak for Worthington specifically but I believe that is not unusual practice. Sometimes the yeast added at bottling is a different strain (Fermentis actually market a bottling strain -TMM sells it)

I read somewhere that some German Weißbier brewers bottle condition at the brewery under controlled conditions before pasteurising the bottles to kill off any further activity.

 

[dennisking]

Next door to Carling is the Worthington brewery where they make White Shield, which is bottle conditioned. They are both owned by Molson Coors.

I am guessing that they either filter or centrifuge before re-inoculating their bottled beer with a measured quantity of yeast thus ensuring a consistent level of condition?

I used to harvest White shield yeast for around 15 years or so until it became hard to find in my area, it a fantastic yeast for the home brewer. When it was relaunched a few years back there was a massive difference. I think they changed from primary to using a bottling yeast.