Why do my AGs still taste rubbish

[johnnie]

I've done quite a few AGs now, all of which have tasted fantastic at the bottling stage, but after bottling they don't taste so good. They are drinkable, but pretty poor in comparison to a decent pint at the pub. The only decent one I've had is Old Peculiar from the Wheeler book, Tasted like the real stuff. I've been priming with 1/2 teaspoon of cane sugar for 500ml bottle. Could this be the problem? What I don't understand is that the beer tastes great when bottling, so I don't think I've a problem with brewing process or the fermentation. It must be something to do with the conditioning period. Maybe I'm not leaving them long enough? Any of you experienced all grainers got any ideas? I'm actually considering giving up.

Cheers
J

 

[The Goatreich]

How clean are your bottles?

Are you capping them with crown caps? If you're using the reusable type then it could be that air is getting to the brew and they're getting oxidised.

 

[johnnie]

I think my bottles are clean. I use glass and crown cap. I rinse them out after drinking, run them through the dishwasher, with no detergent or rinse aid on bottling day, and then sterilise. I've done several extracts, some of which seem to taste a lot better. I'm beginning to wonder if AG is not all that its cracked up to be and people are just saying it's great when its not! Apologies to everyone who makes great AG beer, I'm just not getting there.

 

[Baz Chaz]

The Riggwelter is one of my favourites I've made from the same recipe, I've not had a problem so far, it is a genuinely nice pint :drink:

Can't understand why if it's OK at the bottling stage it's not maturing properly :wha:

 

[pittsy]

def sounds like infection or cleaning products not removed from bottles or other areas

 

[Baz Chaz]

Been thinking about it since my earlier answer, the only bottle I've had that was a duff one which tasted of cleaning fluid, so I must've missed rinsing it properly!

If your brew tastes OK before bottling, maybe the way you're cleaning your bottles etc before you use them might be awry ?

I always rinse bottles after emptying the contents and leave to dry upside down, then store them covered up, until needed.

On bottling day, I bring the appropriate number of bottles up to the house and leave them in sterilising solution for half an hour.

Rinse well with very hot water and stand bottles uside down prior to filling, maybe a slight rethink of your cleaning/bottling process might work, good luck buddy :thumb:

 

[farmer brown]

If the bottles are good, maybe it an oxygenation thing? Are you making sure you don't cause too many splashes and bubbles when decanting? I was told to decant carefully in order reduce the amount of oxygen in the ale for when its conditioning? I now use a bottle filler which helps reduce the introduction of oxygen.

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/det ... RU20133522

Just an idea anyway... I could be way off here sorry

 

[TheMumbler]

As has been mentioned oxidation, residual cleaning products and infection are all possible candidates for beer being worse in the bottle. I second the recommendation for a little bottler or similar bottling aid if you aren't using one.

I tend to find that the normal maturation process means that english style ales get worse before they get better. How long are you leaving it?

The other thing is that you might be priming too high resulting in a beer that is too fizzy for your liking. CO2 does have an effect on taste, maybe try less sugar?

I find that bottling does change the flavour a bit it has never worried me much but it might be that you just don't get on with that bottled taste. You could try using another form of dispense (corny, polypin etc.).

In what way does the beer taste worse?

 

[johnnie]

Thanks for all your ideas guys.

I now use a bottle filler which helps reduce the introduction of oxygen.

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/det ... RU20133522

Just an idea anyway... I could be way off here sorry

yep I use one of these too.

Been thinking about it since my earlier answer, the only bottle I've had that was a duff one which tasted of cleaning fluid, so I must've missed rinsing it properly!

If your brew tastes OK before bottling, maybe the way you're cleaning your bottles etc before you use them might be awry ?

I rinse my bottles after use. Let them dry upside down before storing in boxes. On bottling day I put them in the dishwasher, (no detergent, no rinse aid), and sterilise with Starsan so I shouldn't need to rinse.

I tend to find that the normal maturation process means that english style ales get worse before they get better. How long are you leaving it?

In what way does the beer taste worse?

Can't really say what the taste is. It's a sort of mixture of toffee, yeast, and strong alcohol. Maybe it's just a case of leaving them longer and hopefully they will improve. Does an AG take longer than extracts or kits to condition? Coz I've never had a problem until I went AG. I've got two brews conditioning and two fermenting. Gonna try and stash some away for a few months, see if that helps. If that doesn't work then I'm gonna have to ask for some Guinea pigs to try some.

cheers all J

 

[Che Banana]

I reckon you are describing the taste of an oversparged beer. Try sparging less. Probably mixed with over priming. Cut down to about an 8th of teaspoon. Just the tip.

 

[johnnie]

I reckon you are describing the taste of an oversparged beer. Try sparging less. Probably mixed with over priming. Cut down to about an 8th of teaspoon. Just the tip.

What does oversparging mean? Will this affect the taste after bottling? It always tastes fine straight from the f.v. but once bottled the taste is pretty bad.

 

[Hollow Legs]

If you over sparge then you produce tannins, do you take hydrometer readings as you sparge?

 

[johnnie]

If you over sparge then you produce tannins, do you take hydrometer readings as you sparge?

Yes I stop at or before 0990, depending on whether I've reached my pre boil volume or not. Would tanins affect the taste in the bottle even if it tastes ok from the fv?

 

[Hollow Legs]

don't know, you only asked what over sparging was, but you seemed to know the answer already?

 

[johnnie]

don't know, you only asked what over sparging was, but you seemed to know the answer already?

Thanks hollow legs. I now know something I didn't know i knew! Does that make sense? :rofl:

 

[Hollow Legs]

don't know, you only asked what over sparging was, but you seemed to know the answer already?

Thanks hollow legs. I now know something I didn't know i knew! Does that make sense? :rofl:

Tannins would give you a dry bitey feel to your brew like a dry cider I think, don't know if that's what you are experiencing?

 

[Cononthebarber]

How and where do you store your beers?

 

[Good Ed]

If you over sparge then you produce tannins, do you take hydrometer readings as you sparge?

Yes I stop at or before 0990, depending on whether I've reached my pre boil volume or not. Would tanins affect the taste in the bottle even if it tastes ok from the fv?

You want to stop sparging before you get to SG 1008 (temperature adjusted), I'm not sure the reason, but I suspect it is because you will then be getting a wort with out any sugars in it, and as said try and keep your grain bed between 72 & 76C, above 76C you risk extracting tannins fromthe malt.

 

[johnnie]

[quote="Hollow Legs":1dlnzyks]If you over sparge then you produce tannins, do you take hydrometer readings as you sparge?

Yes I stop at or before 0990, depending on whether I've reached my pre boil volume or not. Would tanins affect the taste in the bottle even if it tastes ok from the fv?

You want to stop sparging before you get to SG 1008 (temperature adjusted), I'm not sure the reason, but I suspect it is because you will then be getting a wort with out any sugars in it, and as said try and keep your grain bed between 72 & 76C, above 76C you risk extracting tannins fromthe malt.[/quote:1dlnzyks]

1008? Have I been going too low then? As for the grain bed temp, I've never checked it . I've just sparged with water at 85C. So maybe I've been extracting tannins. But even if I'm extracting tannins, the beer still tastes great at bottling and crap after bottling. Wouldn't tannins make the beer taste crap in the fv?

 

[prolix]

Mate get yourself to a brewers meeting and take a bottle or two along for the experts to taste.

I learnt loads from LAB London amateur brewers first Monday of the month at the Wentlock Arms

Try one near you or see if there is a brewer here you can send a bottle too