White wine / Prosecco coming out of keg as foam?

[Berry454]

Hi guys,

So my original setup for Prosecco / sparking wine was 2 x 19l corny kegs with MYO white wine kits fermented to 1.000. I carbonated them to 40 psi and counter pressure bottle filled into champagne bottles. All was fine accept for bottling from the kegs, it was a nightmare.

So I decided to build a kegerator dedicated to wine / Prosecco.

Large fridge fitted with two ultra taps. Temperature 2 degrees Celsius. MYO white wine kits carbonated to 60psi.. 30 feet of valpar brewmaster two 3/16” pipe for each tap. Figured 30 feet would be about right considering it’s carbonated to 60psi.

Attempted to pour at 10 psi, complete foam in glass.

Attempted to pour at 20 psi, again complete foam in glass. When the foam settles down I’m left with flat white wine in the glass!

It’s like I’m losing all the carbonation in the line when it’s flowing to the tap as pure white foam is coming out the tap.

Plenty of head space in kegs, force carbonated to 60 psi and absolutely no leaks whatsoever. Checked everything with soapy water.

Any idea what could be causing this? Already wasted 2+ litre of the wine just trying to play around with serving pressure.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I can’t help but I’m watching this with great interest as I have exactly the same issue although mine is carbonated to 40psi. I’ve even tried installing a flow restrictor on the line so it pours at a trickle but I still end up with a glass of foam which settles down to a quarter of a glass of flat sparkling wine!

 

[Berry454]

I can’t help but I’m watching this with great interest as I have exactly the same issue although mine is carbonated to 40psi. I’ve even tried installing a flow restrictor on the line so it pours at a trickle but I still end up with a glass of foam which settles down to a quarter of a glass of flat sparkling wine!

Glad to see I’m not the only one who is having this issue!

Just curious, what size and length of line are you using and what temp is your fridge?

Not sure if it’s any help but I had absolutely no issues when I carbonated to 40psi and counter pressure bottle filled. Just would have liked a little more carbonation to truly replicate the Prosecco experience, hence the 60psi on this run.

Hope someone can come along and offer us some help! Having a glass of white foam followed by a glass of flat wine is very disheartening!

 

[LeeH]

Sounds like the top of your fridge is colder than the top which is normal obviously. Are your beer lines high up compared to the location of the keg?

Maybe at 60 PSI all the normal issues we have my be amplified over the normal 10-15 psi storage/serving pressure.

Your tap is on the outside which is very warm, try putting your tap in the fridge as a test. It may just not be possible to serve like this, never seen it done before.

Also if you need 60PSI at your given temp, serving at 10 will ultimately give you flat wine anyway by the time you get to the bottom.

Only suggestions I have is to install a fan in the fridge to circulate the cold air.

Good luck.

 

[MashBag]

Wine is not beer. There is no protein.
Cold as you can. Biggest bore. No restrictions. Shortest run. Use co2 not mixed gas. Simple tap.

Also consider storing @ 30-40psi then vent & despense @5psi

Carbonation is best fermented in during secondary in fermentation in the corny. Different adsorption and much smaller, finer bubbles.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Carbonation is best fermented in during secondary in fermentation in the corny. Different adsorption and much smaller, finer bubbles.

This is my experience also, I've kegged Elderflower wine both sugar primed and carbonated with co2 and natural secondary fermentation made for a much better drink.
I also found co2 gave a fizz that quickly dissipated, if you sugar prime in a keg you also have no worries about bottle bombs.

 

[Frisp]

Wine is not beer. There is no protein.
Cold as you can. Biggest bore. No restrictions. Shortest run. Use co2 not mixed gas. Simple tap.

Also consider storing @ 30-40psi then vent & despense @5psi

Carbonation is best fermented in during secondary in fermentation in the corny. Different adsorption and much smaller, finer bubbles.

Is this going to also apply hard cider. Im toying with throwing 5 gallons of vimpto cider in a fermenter with a view to serving from a keg

 

[Berry454]

Is this going to also apply hard cider. Im toying with throwing 5 gallons of vimpto cider in a fermenter with a view to serving from a keg

Depends how much you want to push the carbonation I think.

Done some experiments on these kegs with wine and different taps / carbonation levels.

Keg 1 - white wine @ 60psi
This absolutely won’t serve properly know matter what I do. Tried serving through the tap on my fridge, foams out the glass. Tired serving from a party tap with a short 5 foot line, still foams out the glass. Tried both taps at everything from 1 degrees Celsius all the way to 5 degrees Celsius. Tried a fan in the fridge and even checked the temperature of my party tap with a laser thermometer before serving. Under no circumstances will this serve. I just get a glass of foam followed by flat white wine. Interestingly I have observed the line and it’s completely clear throughout. Seems the wine only turns to foam when it leaves the tap or inside the tap.

Keg 2 - white wine @ 30psi
Won’t serve through my external fridge tap whatsoever, foams up in the glass and left with flat white wine. Serves fine if poured VERY slowly from a party tap (in fridge) with a short 4 foot line and at 1 degrees Celsius throughout fridge. Tap and line all at this temperature. 3-4 glasses poured and the tap heats up slightly and the wine turns back to foam.

IMO can probably get by if you keep the carbonation below 30 psi and keep the tap and line both as cold as possible in fridge.

Unfortunately, at 30 psi the white wine just isn’t carbonated enough to simulate a true sparkling white wine / Prosecco experience!

Think I’m going to go back to bottle carbonating.

Far far more work than it’s worth to counter pressure bottle fill at psi pressures which as 60 psi. The kegs don’t seem to be working so that really only leaves me with old school bottle carbonating.

Anyone who wants to try carbonating and serving wine from kegs I highly recommend you do small 1g batches. As about 38 litres l white wine will probably be going down the drain for me. Admittedly not the most expensive kits but still a waste of wine and time!

 

[MashBag]

Why down the drain?

 

[MashBag]

Think I’m going to go back to bottle carbonating.

If you get fizz bottles you could prime, ferment inverted and then disgorge? Get the bigger crown caps and away you go?

 

[Berry454]

Why down the drain?

Well even when the wine comes out flat it still tastes different.. it’s almost like the wine still has the bitterness of carbonation though it’s flat.

Tastes a bit like flat cola left out the fridge over night. Not very pleasant to drink.

Hence not sure it has much of a life accept for down the toilet.

I’m convinced that when we force carbonate wine, it’s never going to actually taste the same if you make it still again.

Can’t bottle carb this batch as it obviously contains preservatives.

 

[MashBag]

Let it stand and degas naturally, then treat with pot met 10g in 50l.
You can also give it a flavour "lift" with citric acid. Glass test before treating the whole batch.

It can be recovered easily.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I’ve given up on the hope of dispensing mine from the keg and have now decarbonise it. Plan now is to dispense into 2l fizzy drinks bottles, carb them and open and pour from the bottles. Question is, what pressure am I able to carb these bottles to?

 

[Berry454]

I’ve given up on the hope of dispensing mine from the keg and have now decarbonise it. Plan now is to dispense into 2l fizzy drinks bottles, carb them and open and pour from the bottles. Question is, what pressure am I able to carb these bottles to?

I would definitely re-think the 2L plastic bottles as what you open will need using in a single sitting or it will go flat. The plastic bottles also will begin losing carbonation relatively quickly.

I also gave up on dispensing wine from kegs, absolutely nothing worked! I decarbonated my last batch and have been serving it still from wine bag in boxes.

I did make a new batch of wine and I’m currently carbonating this at 17.2g sugar per litre in glass champagne bottles and flip top beer bottles. Seems to be carbonating relatively well so far.

I know some members did have doubts if my beer bottles would smash under the pressure of 17.2g sugar per litre but so far they seem to be holding up! Anything less than this and I don’t think I would have enough carbonation to taste right.

If you do go ahead with the plastic bottles they should be able to withstand a large amount of pressure… though as said, will lose that pressure gradually.

 

[Berry454]

deleted duplicate post

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Ah, to fully explain, we are hosting a cocktail party next weekend and one of the drinks we’ll be making is Passionfruit Martini which is served with a shot of sparkling wine. It means that once the bottle is opened it will all be served pretty quickly and, if it works, save me a small fortune on Prosecco .

I’ll be carbing it with one of these:

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’ve given up on the hope of dispensing mine from the keg and have now decarbonise it. Plan now is to dispense into 2l fizzy drinks bottles, carb them and open and pour from the bottles. Question is, what pressure am I able to carb these bottles to?

I looked into this once and posted somewhere on the forum. It was a high pressure, maybe 150psi? I routinely fill 2-litre fizzy drinks bottles from my taps and carbonate with 60psi if I’m taking beer anywhere so you’ll be fine at that pressure.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I’ve currently got one at 60psi

 

[MashBag]

Store is v. cold (laying down) 2" gap is godd. Shake and then top up the pressure.

 

[Rakey]

I have a tap on my kegerator dedicated to fizzy wine, I had the fizzing issue to start with then I put a step down in the line to 3/16, roughly about 2m and there's probably about 1/4 a meter of 3/8 left on either side. Its basically a deluxe party tap line set up from TMM I had spare.

I carb it up slowly in a fridge, so about a week with 30psi of co2 on it. Then move to the kegerator where is pushed out with mixed gas roughly about 20psi and through a flow control tap and it works fine.

I do a similar thing with the kegs of tonic water I make.