Which type of crushed malt will give me the highest enzyme activity?

[andy-10]

I'm looking to add quite a lot of adjuncts, so will need the maximum enzyme content for conversion.

 

[foxbat]

Searching for 'diastatic power table' should get you the results you need. I wasn't surprised to see UK Maris Otter near the top. I always seem to exceed my usual mash efficiency when I use that.

 

[andy-10]

Thanks. I've found this list. Do you have any links to any others please?

American 2 Row Pale Malt: 140 °L
American 6 Row Pale Malt: 160 °L
British Pale Malts: 40-70 °L
Maris Otter Pale Malt: 120 °L
Belgian Pale Malt (2 row): 60 °L
German Pilsner Malt: 110 °L
Munich Malt (10 SRM): 70 °L
Munich Malt (20 SRM): 25 °L
Vienna Malt: 50 °L
Wheat Malt, German: 60-90 °L
Wheat, Unmalted (flaked, Torrified): 0 °L
Crystal Malt (all): 0 °L
Chocolate Malt: 0°L
Black Patent Malts: 0 °L

 

[An Ankoù]

I'm looking to add quite a lot of adjuncts, so will need the maximum enzyme content for conversion.

Could you be a bot more specific?
You can always add an enzyme like amyloglucosidase to convert your adjuncts. I've converted 100% brown ale malt to do a historic recipe (apparently when brown ale was diastatic) and it worked just fine.

 

[andy-10]

I'll be adding crushed maize, rye and rice. Probably 25% adjuncts and 75% crushed barley malt.

Where do you buy your amyloglucosidase?

 

[Hanglow]

Use something like this if you want a lot of diastatic power. You won't need it for the whole amount though. you could do 50% your choice barley malt, 25% HDP malt and then your adjuncts and it would easily cover it. It has a litner value of 176

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/crisp-high-diastatic-power-hdp-malt/
That table is wrong (they are using the EBC DPWK value, not litner for that one) marris otter does not have that diastatic power, it is the same as other british pale malts. The low colour MO (and other low colour pale malts) do have a bit more than the normally kilned ones though.

 

[andy-10]

Good idea. I've bought from themaltmiller before.

 

[An Ankoù]

I'll be adding crushed maize, rye and rice. Probably 25% adjuncts and 75% crushed barley malt.

Where do you buy your amyloglucosidase?

I got my last lot from Geterbrewed. It goes under a number of names and I had trouble finding it.
https://www.geterbrewed.com/abv-glucoamylase-400/
I see they're out of stock. Received wisdom is that British pale malt will convert up to 20% adjuncts so your 25% is possibly pushing it a bit. Sounds an interesting recipe, though. What are you making?

 

[Partial_Object]

With some styles you can get away with a lot more adjunct than that. I've made a witbier before with 2.3kg pilsner and 2.7kg total unmalted (2.2 flaked wheat and 0.5 oats) and it turned out pretty great. The OG was dead on the prediction from brewers friend.

 

[crescent city Mike]

I wrote an article about diastatic power some time back. When I started brewing many years ago, I had no support group and figured out most problems on my own. Books provided a lot of info but by that time the internet was in full fashion and many answers come to light for anyone who is willing to read a little and compare that to your own experiences.

https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/has-it-got-the-power/
It is rather simple to determine if you have enough diastatic power in your mash bill.

 

[dwhite60]

I've done two pounds of corn meal with three pounds of regular pale malt. Cereal mashed the corn meal with a handful of the same two row.

Hit my gravity without any problems.

Recipe

3# Rahr 2-row
2# cornmeal
4 oz. Caravienne
4 oz. White wheat

 

[KGB]

probably not the way forward for you, but you could use some diastatic malt flour/powder, found at bakery supply shops and health food stores.

 

[peebee]

Gordon Bennett! Where is all this drivel about "diastatic power" coming from?

At best "DP" is a guide if, and only if, you understand its limitations.

Just consider what it's telling you. The power of not one enzyme but many of which the key players, alpha amylase and beta amylase, operate very differently. If the malt contains predominantly alpha amylase the mash may well convert, but the fermentation may stall a good bit earlier than expected. But does "DP" tell you that?

The author of the OP was doing it right. He was aware that you can overdo the adjuncts and so asked the question. And with the extra info of "75% malt, 25% adjunct" can be told "you should be okay" without screwing up his head with "diastatic power".

You can always add an enzyme like amyloglucosidase to convert your adjuncts. I've converted 100% brown ale malt to do a historic recipe ...

I reckon you've only said that to wind me up! So anyone who is outraged by my outburst: Blame @An Ankoù; he sparked me off and probably did it on purpose.






(For those that don't know: I have been working with "historical" diastatic brown malt - which has absolutely no resemblance to modern day brown malt. I've even tried to use "DP" figures to help me. Clue: For "historical" brown malt there was no magic, voodoo, or special skills even, required).

 

[An Ankoù]

For those that don't know: I have been working with "historical" diastatic brown malt - which has absolutely no resemblance to modern day brown malt. I've even tried to use "DP" figures to help me. Clue: For "historical" brown malt there was no magic, voodoo, or special skills even, required).

I had no intention of winding you up @peebee, and I did convert modern brown malt and modern Amber, mixed, to make something. It isn't particularly pleasant and I shall be following in your footsteps with the "historical" home-made versions next time round.

Not that I've got any objection to a good wind up, in its proper time and place, of course.

I think I read somewhere that there are are as many as 5 enzymes at work breaking down the complex saccharides one of which, I recall, is called limit dextrinase. I always wondered what the "limit" bit was about!

 

[Sadfield]

https://www.geterbrewed.com/crisp-high-diastatic-power-hdp-malt-en/
Malt Spec Top Trump cards, now there's an idea.

 

[Sadfield]

Gordon Bennett! Where is all this drivel about "diastatic power" coming from?

At best "DP" is a guide if, and only if, you understand its limitations.

Just consider what it's telling you. The power of not one enzyme but many of which the key players, alpha amylase and beta amylase, operate very differently. If the malt contains predominantly alpha amylase the mash may well convert, but the fermentation may stall a good bit earlier than expected. But does "DP" tell you that?

The author of the OP was doing it right. He was aware that you can overdo the adjuncts and so asked the question. And with the extra info of "75% malt, 25% adjunct" can be told "you should be okay" without screwing up his head with "diastatic power".


I reckon you've only said that to wind me up! So anyone who is outraged by my outburst: Blame @An Ankoù; he sparked me off and probably did it on purpose.






(For those that don't know: I have been working with "historical" diastatic brown malt - which has absolutely no resemblance to modern day brown malt. I've even tried to use "DP" figures to help me. Clue: For "historical" brown malt there was no magic, voodoo, or special skills even, required).

But..... The OP specifically asked "Which type of crushed malt will give me the highest enzyme activity?", so the guidance to look for the malt with the highest DP is the most accurate answer. I think everyone understands that DP pertains to saccharification, the converting of starch to sugar, any sugar of an undetermined type. And that fermentabilty is a totally different kettle of malt.

 

[peebee]

I had no intention of winding you up @peebee ...

Hmm, am I supposed to believe that? One of my favourite words recently is "oxymoron", mainly because every time I see it I have to look up what it means 'cos it doesn't fit its meaning. But can it be applied to entire phrases as well as words?

I remember "limit dextrinase" too. Something about "debranching"? It's great all this stuff about beer brewing enzymes, all the associations with woodsy things like axes and chainsaws. I like axes and chainsaws! Can't understand why people keep hiding such things from me .

... guidance to look for the malt with the highest DP is the most accurate answer ...

Haven't we cross swords on this subject ("DP") only very recently? If so the reason will be because I've been trying to get any sense out of this "DP" business, and getting very frustrated with it .

But something you might be able to answer for me? Seems us home brewers might be being deprived of useful info regarding "DP". On the Crisp Website you get "diastatic power" values referred to with things like "60 min °L". That "60 min" bit looks important: Do you know what it's about?


@andy-10: Sorry! I think this is termed "hijacking".

 

[Sadfield]

Hmm, am I supposed to believe that? One of my favourite words recently is "oxymoron", mainly because every time I see it I have to look up what it means 'cos it doesn't fit its meaning. But can it be applied to entire phrases as well as words?

I remember "limit dextrinase" too. Something about "debranching"? It's great all this stuff about beer brewing enzymes, all the associations with woodsy things like axes and chainsaws. I like axes and chainsaws! Can't understand why people keep hiding such things from me .



Haven't we cross swords on this subject ("DP") only very recently? If so the reason will be because I've been trying to get any sense out of this "DP" business, and getting very frustrated with it .

But something you might be able to answer for me? Seems us home brewers might be being deprived of useful info regarding "DP". On the Crisp Website you get "diastatic power" values referred to with things like "60 min °L". That "60 min" bit looks important: Do you know what it's about?


@andy-10: Sorry! I think this is termed "hijacking".

Yep, they sometimes refer to the number of minutes it takes to reach conversion. Or, likely it could be minimum, if that is the way it is written in between the value and unit. The clue may be if they use Max for maximum in any of the other variables, such as extract, etc.

EDIT: IIRC DU units are a measure of alpha amylase only.

 

[peebee]

Yep, they sometimes refer to the number of minutes it takes to reach conversion. ...

Thanks! You also inspired me to do a bit more digging about. Odd, I seem to have skipped over some useful background:

At best "DP" is a guide if, and only if, you understand its limitations. ...

Correct!

... Just consider what it's telling you. The power of not one enzyme but many of which the key players, alpha amylase and beta amylase, operate very differently. ...

Wrong! DP is referring to the creation of reducing sugars which is mainly just measuring the effectiveness of beta-amylase (although it relies on alpha-amylase, and others, to prepare the way). I haven't looked up "DU" just yet. The likes of Degree Lintner - Wikipedia does make it easy to skip over the critical information!

"Lintner", which is mainly an American measure (Europeans use Windisch-Kolbach units), usually means a timing of 60 minutes at very specific "mash" parameters (20°C!). A figure of "30" doesn't mean it "won't" convert, but does suggest taking further precautions. As I said; "DP" is a guide, if one understand its limitations. Something I understand better thanks to your (@Sadfield's) prompting.

 

[Cwrw666]

All this above is a bit too technical for me...
However, I did notice that when I bought a sack of Hook Head pilsner/lager malt I got a noticeable increase in ABV over what I got from their pale ale malt. I guess it's because lager malts are less roasted than ordinary pale malts.
I use it for everything now.