Which grains as a starting point?

[Bashley]

Hi All, I'll be switching to all grain soon. Going for the grainfather!
As I now live in France I'd like to minimise postage costs and order enough grains, hops etc for a few months.
As a fan of IPAs, ambers and british ales such as summer lightening, badger etc are there certain 'go to' grains I can stock up on?
From what I can see, for IPA clones (such as punk) we're looking at Maris Otter Pale. For ales it seems like some roasted barley, crystal malt, cara malt. Also, do you guys have a stocks of all types of hops and yeasts?
Just looking for a decent starting point. Thanks for any help!

 

[-Bezza-]

I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve - are you looking to learn in a systematic way or just get a few different types of beer brewed?

I think I'm in a similar boat to you at the moment, albeit I'm going to try a few BIAB brews before investing in the heavy machinery. I'm erring more towards learning in a systematic way for now so planning on making a few single-hop ales to get to know what each of these provide in terms of flavour. There is a recipe in Greg Hughes that is Maris Otter and Carapils (I think) that all target a consistent 40 IBU using different single hops. It seemed to me to be sensible to follow this recipe but I would split each batch into two and ferment one with a fairly neutral yeast as my control sample (MJ Liberty Bell probably) and the second with a different yeast each time.

The control sample should allow me to compare across hop types whilst the other yeast should give me an indication of how that impacts things.

I was planning on using each of the popular hops that I've seen mentioned on here frequently, or pop up in the beers I like, but focus on those that have slightly higher AA%, with the theory being I'll need less of them to hit the target bitterness.

 

[Bashley]

I think I'd like to nail a few brews first in order to have a decent stock, then maybe in the summer I'll delve deeper and try to get an understanding of the different the types of hops, yeasts ands grains and what they bring to the table. At the moment I'm a complete novice so just want to follow a few recipes.

 

[simon12]

For grain you could make all you mention with a pale malt (like maris otter) plus 0-12% crystal malt. Until you get to grips with it all I suggest you use Nottingham/Gervin yeast as its got about the best temperature range and fine for most styles. As for hops you really need to decide on recipes to decide how much of what to buy.

 

[MmmBeer]

It's easy to get carried away and end up with dozens of bags of specialty malts and a freezer full of different hops that rarely get used.

A good supply of base malt like Maris Otter or Golden Promise is your starting point, a medium Crystal malt is also very useful. Other malts tend to be used far more occasionally and sparingly, so buy with care.

As for hops, Goldings and Fuggles are a must for English ales, you may consider using a dedicated bittering hop like Admiral or Magnum, or use larger amounts of lower alpha hops like Challenger or Progress for bittering. If you wish to make citrussy American style IPA's, there's a whole raft of varieties to choose from, 2 or 3 of the 'C' hops might be a good start (Cascade, Citra, Columbus, Centennial).

As simon12 mentioned, Gervin is a good yeast and I wouldn't be without one in my fridge as a backup. Many swear by Safale S04 and US05, or the Crossmyloof Real Ale and US Pale Ale are very good value via ebay.

I have recently bought a Grainfather myself after having done stovetop BIAB for a year, two brews done so far, should be ready for drinking soon. I recommend that you have a browse through some of the youtube videos of it before your first use. I would also recommend a recipe book such as the late Graham Wheeler's Brew your own British Real Ale. Have fun.

 

[Spapro]

In addition to Marris otter (lots off) and some crystal (10%) , a small amount of chocolate malt (2-5% for some bitters) and roasted barley (5-10% for Stouts) would be handy if you want to brew those styles, you can usually order those malts in 500g or 1kg bags which will cost you nothing and be handy if you need them.

 

[chewie]

If your postal supplier is in the UK then i would get a 25kg bag of maris otter, you can use that has a base for most beers. Also if you are relying on postal then I would be inclined to buy a grain mill, that means if you are getting bulkier bags of grain then you can crush as you need it.

 

[Clint]

How are you getting your recipes? If you have no books I can recommend the Greg Hughes book..as could a few others no doubt! I use this as well as the graham Wheeler book...you find a lot of recipes have the same base malt and extras but in varying amounts so you can easily plan ahead. Hops and yeast are really good value from cross my loof plus you can always do a “user upper” when you have bits left over...it won’t kill you and I bet you won’t waste it!

 

[AdeDunn]

How are you getting your recipes? If you have no books I can recommend the Greg Hughes book..as could a few others no doubt! I use this as well as the graham Wheeler book...you find a lot of recipes have the same base malt and extras but in varying amounts so you can easily plan ahead. Hops and yeast are really good value from cross my loof plus you can always do a “user upper” when you have bits left over...it won’t kill you and I bet you won’t waste it!

The Greg Hughes book is a brilliant book to start with! I couldn't even understand my Graham Wheeler book until I'd read it. lol Between the 2 though, there aren't many styles not covered.

I've been keeping 2 types of base grain in, by ordering 25 kilos of each but split into 5 kilo bags. I bought 25 kilos of Maris Otter pale, and 25 kilos of Belgian Pilsen malt. I tend to get smaller quantities of Crystal malt (150 EBC), torrefied wheat, and more recently black malt for brewing bitters and milds (1300 or so EBC... lol). It's amazing how many beers you can brew just with those. I've used Munich malt and wheat malt before now too, but not nearly as often. Hops you've gotta pick a recipe to pick your hops really. Yeast, I used to use CML but much prefer Mangrove Jacks now. M36 Liberty Bell for British styles, M29 French Saison for Saisons. I'll be trying M 42 New World Strong Ale soon on a stout, lots prefer Nottingham but a few say that Nottingham mutes hops a bit.

I'm the wrong person for advice about minimum basics though, I approach everything with a passion! lol I had multiple types of yeast in the fridge before I even bought my first lot of malt.... lol

 

[Bashley]

How are you getting your recipes? If you have no books I can recommend the Greg Hughes book..as could a few others no doubt! I use this as well as the graham Wheeler book...you find a lot of recipes have the same base malt and extras but in varying amounts so you can easily plan ahead. Hops and yeast are really good value from cross my loof plus you can always do a “user upper” when you have bits left over...it won’t kill you and I bet you won’t waste it!

Yes, I intend to buy the Greg Hughes book. I might grab a couple of clone AG packs to get started. In terms of recipes there seems to be a few different avenues, Grainfather, beersmith, brewersfriend. I don't really know which one is best. Also have no idea how you put the recipes into grainfather - just so much to learn!

 

[Bashley]

I wonder if someone can help me with a couple of questions before I go and order everything.

1. If I order 25kg of Maris Otter, should I order it crushed?
2. Do I really need a crusher?
3. Is there a type of Maris Otter that's superior?

Thanks for any help!

 

[cheshirehomebrew]

I never crush any of the grain I buy from the home brew shop and I use BIAB, never had a problem with flavour aroma colour etc.

Marris Otter forms the base to all my beers i just switch round the other grains, hops and percentages to make different beers

 

[Zephyr259]

I wonder if someone can help me with a couple of questions before I go and order everything.

1. If I order 25kg of Maris Otter, should I order it crushed?
2. Do I really need a crusher?
3. Is there a type of Maris Otter that's superior?

Thanks for any help!

I bought a mill as I knew it would take a while to get through 25kg, crushed will keep OK for a while (months?) But uncrushed will last over a year. So it depends how quickly you think you'll use it up.

 

[Bashley]

Guess I was thinking that 25kg would last 5 brews, but I know nothing tbh! :) I've been researching and it seems that for American IPAs the 2 row equivalent would be weyermann pale ale malt. They come in 5.5-7.5 EBC and 3/5-5 EBC. What does that mean?

 

[Zephyr259]

It's the colour of the malt. 5-6 ebc is around normal for Maris otter and other British pale malts, American 2 row is a bit paler, lager malt is around 3 from memory. Not used weyermann's pale malt, I like their Munich and speciality malts. I'd go with Maris Otter, Crisp malts tend to be pretty good.

5kg will give you 23L of decent strength beer, I brew 15L so most of my grain bills are 3 - 3.5kg including the speciality malts so I only use 2 - 3 kg of pale malt in each brew.

 

[Bashley]

Could be interesting to try both malts without any other difference in ingredients . Thanks for the info!

 

[simon12]

I have had crushed grain stored for over 6 months without any noticeable drop in efficiency, I have seen many people say they get much better efficiency milling it themselves though.

 

[Bashley]

When we talk about 'efficiency' are merely talking about how much beer produce per gram of grain?

 

[simon12]

When we talk about 'efficiency' are merely talking about how much beer produce per gram of grain?

Pretty much but I look at it as less efficiency means more grain for the same ABV but its the same thing really.

 

[-Bezza-]

Pretty much but I look at it as less efficiency means more grain for the same ABV but its the same thing really.

The way Bashley has worded his question has got me wondering whether mash efficiency also impacts the ability to extract the flavour of the grain into the wort? Or does the "flavouring" max out well before the extraction of the fermenatable goodness?