Whatever happened to patience?

[The Idiot]

As a fairly new face around here, one thing that has struck me in a short time is that many brewers seem to be in a race to get the beer out of the FV and into bottles or kegs. There are so many questions about whether a beer is finished in 3 or 4 days and people are messing with their wort on an almost daily basis to see if they can package it.

Whenever I put a beer in an FV I then ignore it for a minimum of three weeks. Most of my beers are AG, but I occasionally do an extract recipe if I'm experimenting with something and just want a simpler brewday. Either way I wouldn't dream of touching it or even opening the FV for that time.

At around three weeks I will take a gravity reading, and that'll be the first time the FV gets opened. I use a hydrometer because I want a tube of beer to check colour, clarity and taste. If everything seems good to go, I then either dry hop for another 7-14 days or, if no dry hopping is needed, I'll make a call as to whether I'll keg or leave it for another week. Most often it's the latter.

I remember when I first started out, I checked the FV every day and at the first sign of no bubbles I bottled. I also remember that the beer was nowhere near as clean and tasty as it is now. Yes, other lessons learned have improved my brews, but one of those is most certainly to let the yeast do its job, and that includes cleaning up the beer for a few weeks after the initial fermentation period has ended.

Aside from not letting the beer properly condition prior to packaging (for some reason a lot of people only care about conditioning after packaging rather than the essential stage before packaging), the constant checking and rechecking does invite so many opportunities for infections at a time when the wort is most vulnerable.

Another thing is that I rarely see recipes where people specify an ageing period. I currently have a selection of bottles that I sample every month, and it's amazing just how much the beer changes.

I do understand that making beer is exciting and sometimes it's hard to be patient, but I don't see a groundswell of opinion urging patience from experienced brewers either.

So here's the question: am I and a few others in a minority who still see time as being an important part of the brewing process?

 

[Graz]

Unfortunately I think some of us were educated in the dark days of home brewing (80/90s) when kits were often sold under the pretense of make this and drink it with 14 days.

I learnt my brewing from my Dad and his typical turnaround on kits was 7 days from going in the FV to the keg, after that it was dependent as to how much other draught he had already before a new keg got tapped. Usually at least a couple of weeks though. The kits would ferment in the time because he kept the FV somewhere warm so the yeast would work quickly, as we know know this is not such a good idea. He was also of the thinking that if you left it in the FV for much longer than that then you risked making the beer taste funny / get infected. Again as we now know that is not the case.

Whilst I do now appreciate the modern thinking I'd probably still put myself in the slightly impatient camp. I always sneak a peak at a brew after a day just to make sure the yeast has become active, reason being is I've had kits in the past where I've pitched the supplied yeast and nothing has happened. Again I know know better as to not use yeast approaching their sell-by, bin the yeast in Muntons kits, and to be careful of the wort temperature prior to pitching.

As a lot of the kits I now do have a dry hop addition I'll take a sample around day 9 - 10 to see how things are going. If it's approaching the expected FG then I know I can now add the hop pellets, if not I'll leave it a few more days.

The other part of my problem is that I've yet to build a critical mass of beer, that's to say I like a pint and with my current setup I'm pretty much finishing keg 1 as keg 2 reaches the point where I can start to think about trying it. I've got plans to rectify this as I've now got a third keg and I'm also planning to do some brews for bottling. Once I've got a bit of a backlog hopefully I be able to give my brews a bit more time to improve. That said there is a sweet spot with some types of ale, particularly hoppy IPAs/APAs and once beyond a certain age can start to deteriorate / lose some of there hoppy characteristics.

On the whole though I do agree, patience is very important in brewing.

 

[Gomas]

I think you will find that most people know that it is better to age beer for longer, whether in FV or keg, but unless as Graz said, you have a critical mass of enough beers to drink /try, then a lot will always get consumed before it's truly ready.

The only way to remedy is to make sure you've always got a good stock to drink, even if this means buying a few bottles, particularly for a brewday!

 

[DoctorMick]

I realise time is critical and I'm happy to leave my brews for as long as they need. I do tend to bottle after 2 weeks in the FV but that is because I only have one brew fermenting at a time and I like to brew every 2 weeks. I take my first gravity sample after 7-10 days then add any dry hops and leave until 14 days and check again and assuming the gravity hasn't changed since the first reading I'll bottle. I am happy to leave the bottles for as long as necessary tho, I'd rather see them reach peak condition rather than regret drinking to early.

 

[Dutto]

Some of us started in the very dark days of the 60's when brewing kits were almost non-existent ...

... and finding Malt Extract without Cod Liver Oil in it was a novelty! :whistle:

Most of us therefore used a recipe garnered from a friend to boil up various kinds of malt extract and hops (usually EKG) in the kitchen and soon learned that time was a factor that improved most beers so the "FV > Bottle > Drink" time was extended as we learned. :thumb: :thumb:

However, the "sanitise, sanitise and then sanitise again" message didn't get across with the same alacrity ... :nono: :nono:

... so a few of us discovered that some of the beers that were lovingly stored in the cooler parts of the house became undrinkable after a couple of weeks! Bummer!

Some of us (me included) even gave up on brewing until this Forum sparked our interest again and we re-started brewing.

Now that the "sanitise" message is being received loud and clear and "time" is fully appreciated all we need is a bit of "patience" and most of us can easily brew better beer than the breweries try and sell us. :thumb: :thumb:

Patience isn't a virtue in brewing it's an absolute necessity!​

:thumb::thumb:​

 

[terrym]

Most folks on here, in the main, seem to be comfortable with the rule of thumb of 2+2+2(min). Some beers may require longer in the FV and others are keepers whilst others are best drunk young. And most people who have been brewing for a while know not to rush things.
If you are happy with extended fermentation, carbonation and conditioning periods and it works for you that's fine.
Its different strokes for different folks.

 

[geetee]

I agree that with some beers patience can be a virtue but having done a course on how beer is made and presented professionally it is more than possible (and indeed is common practice for beer to be brewed, fermented kegged and in the pubs in less than 3 weeks. It can be left longer for stock rotation purposes but it is still possible.
As most of my beers are pale and not too complex they are definitely ready between 2 -3 weeks , perfectly clear and bottled. I will not therefore wait an extra week or two when I know them to be ready. They do change over time but more often than not they lose the early fresh hoppy flavour and become more bitter and although still hoppy it is an undefinable hoppy flavour rather than a specific citrus or floral as it originally was.

 

[Clint]

A great subject matter for us newcomers! Interesting points regarding that some beers can be drank after a shorter time conditioning without great detriment. Perhaps a few pointers here would be useful so we can try...

regards

Clint

 

[dandanni84]

I am new to brewing and have my first brew (a 2 can wherry kit) fermenting now. Today is 14 days since I started and I only stopped seeing bubbling 3 days ago. I am now thinking it was right to follow the advice received from the forum as the instruction said to move to pressure barrel after 5 days. From what I understand now my beer should be mucH better conditioned than had I of moved it at 5 days. To be honest it has been a struggle not to move it especially as it is my first brew. I will take a hydrometer reading tonight and if all good will move to pressure barrel tomorrow.

Let's hope my patience pays off

 

[Clint]

Yeah...same here,wherry nearing 2 weeks in the fv,bubbling stopped, fg reading of 1.008 yesterday. About to take another reading in a bit and another tomorrow, if all the same I'll barrel it. The kit instructions are way out.,a shame really as it seems loads of new starters get going with it. This forum is the place to get your answers and advice!

cheers all

Clint

 

[The Idiot]

Dandanni and Clint, remember that the bubbling is primarily the yeast turning sugar to alcohol. The yeast convert many of the sugars to alcohol, then the bubbling stops. However, the yeast is still going. It will convert metabolites, reduce diacetyl and clean up some of the off-flavours. It's allowing for that extra week or so after all the bubbling stops and the gravity has hit the low end that turns good beer into great beer. The yeast do that for you; you can just sit back and have a few drinks.

While a whole load of people tell you they make good homebrew in less time - and they do - they're missing a trick. They could be making great homebrew.

Often, even with good homebrew, there's that homebrew 'taste'. It's slight, it's not bad, but it's there. Give it another week, and like bought beer, that homebrew thing will be gone. It'll be removed by the yeast, while you sit around doing nothing.

If you really want to make your brew shine, throw away the kit yeast and get some decent dried stuff instead!

I guarantee you that short of dipping a dirty donkey in your FV, any kit made with a good dried yeast and given that extra week will outshine all your other efforts. Then just think how good AG will be...

 

[The Idiot]

Interesting points regarding that some beers can be drank after a shorter time conditioning without great detriment. Perhaps a few pointers here would be useful so we can try...

Regardless of style I ferment for 3-4 weeks. Once you've packaged your beer (bottled or kegged) things are different. Wheat beers are best drunk fresh, as soon as they're carbonated. Lighter ales and hop-heavy beers are also good young, as hop intensity dissipates over time. Heavier ales benefit from anything from 6-8 weeks or more before drinking. Stouts and porters only become well rounded after three months. High alcohol beers are keepers. I have some Russian Imperial Stouts that are now around three years old and they're only just reaching their peak.

Belgians and Saisons also benefit from a long condition after packaging, but more modern recipes which are hop-heavy break that rule.

 

[Clint]

Thanks! So..do I bottle it after say 3 constant fg readings in the required range or leave it longer?Tomorrow it would have been in the fv a fortnight. It tastes great and is very clear in the test jar. The yeast thing is a conundrum as and when to sub a kit supplied one..concensus is definately ditch the one supplied in the Wherry/Muntons whereas the Coopers are good...although some of the suggested Coopers Single can recipes say to add the supplied yeast + another..

regards

Clint

 

[terrym]

Thanks! So..do I bottle it after say 3 constant fg readings in the required range or leave it longer?Tomorrow it would have been in the fv a fortnight. It tastes great and is very clear in the test jar. The yeast thing is a conundrum as and when to sub a kit supplied one..concensus is definately ditch the one supplied in the Wherry/Muntons whereas the Coopers are good...although some of the suggested Coopers Single can recipes say to add the supplied yeast + another..

regards

Clint

If it's clearing, been in the FV two weeks, and the SG readings have bottomed out over a few days, you can go ahead and bottle. But if you want to leave it a while longer it won't do any harm. It's your choice.
I found that a Wherry brewed with kit yeast takes about 3 weeks plus after bottling to fully clear anyway, but when it has, it's ready to drink. And it doesn't change a great deal after that. You can do your own trial and see if you agree. :thumb:

 

[Clint]

Thanks terrym.

regards

Clint

 

[dandanni84]

Ok, before I go ahead as planned And open up the fv to take a hydro reading tonight should I leave my wherry for a 3rd week? Bubbling stopped 3 days ago, damn this home brew patience!!!!

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Even under ideal conditions dont bother taking a FG reading before 2 weeks (maybe 3). I wont go off. I dont like transfering to a seconary fermenter for it to clear. You want some of the suspended yeast in your finished fermenting brew. After 2 or 3 weeks take a hydro reading....3 consecutive readings and you ready to move onto the next stage. Prime, bottle/keg...keep warm (22oC) for another 2-3 weeks.. Leave until it naturally drops clear and its nearly ready to drink

Patience Grasshopper

 

[Sandimas]

I've been brewing a good few years and even I got impatient and bottled my last Wherry too soon (Day16) - loads of yeast dropping out into the bottom of the bottle, and a bit too much gas in the bottles.

My usual rule is drop the hydrometer in around Day14, move it somewhere cool for a few days (not too many, not too few) until the beer is clear and then bottle. You need to find the sweet spot between having just enough suspended yeast for a secondary bottle ferment, and too much that produces gushers or bottle bombs. Generally I bottle between Days21-28.

 

[dad_of_jon]

A great subject matter for us newcomers! Interesting points regarding that some beers can be drank after a shorter time conditioning without great detriment. Perhaps a few pointers here would be useful so we can try...

regards

Clint

Wheat beers can be drunk quickly, with little taste difference over time.

hoppy beers best drunk quickly AFTER they had a couple of weeks conditioning because the hoppyness will fade.

darker beers better left for longer 6 weeks or so as a rough figure because it depends on ABV.

high abv dark beers need more time again. 6 months plus for brewfferms abdij, but worth it.

 

[dandanni84]

That's it decision made, I will leave the wherry in fermentation for a 3rd week. I am thinking I need another fv to get another brew on😄