What next

[pedroboro]

Hi All I’ve currently got 2 ales on the go a Woodfords Wherry and a Festival Pride of London porter.
I’m now wanting to start a larger brew but using a kit rather than attempting to mix up my own.
Now the question is is there any kits out there that taste like a San Miguel or Estrella lager?
I’ve tried the Coopers Canadian many years ago and was unimpressed.
Can anyone recommend anything?
Cheers
Pete

 

[crowcrow]

I think the 'problem' this the lager kits is not the tinned wort, but brewing with an ale yeast at ale temps will never give you a proper clean lager beer. I made the wilko one once of twice and it was certainly drinkable, but I wouldn't call it 'great'.

If you can temp control you could do the kit with a proper lager yeast, or if you can pressure ferment you can brew with a lager yeast at ale temps (room temp).

I brew my 'lager' at about 18c now, but fermented under 15 psi of pressure in a corny keg and it tastes great

 

[kenstel]

Hi pedro
I had a look for this just a few days ago. Wasn't looking for a kit but a recipe. I found mention of a clone recipe for SM but it was from an old book (pre-2010 I think) and the comments weren't particularly favourable.

Seem to remember it used rice and golden syrup. Don't think anyone has cracked either recipe so don't think they'll be any kits.

Hopefully this post will bump the thread and may be someone else will be able to add something.

 

[kenstel]

I did come across this clone for Stella. Not the same, I know, and can't vouch for the authenticity but perhaps someone else could offer an informed opinion.

https://homebrewacademy.com/stella-artois-clone-recipe/
There's also this kit
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/stella-artois-clone/?v=79cba1185463
There are a few attempts at clones for Stella around. Doesn't appear to be any for SM or ED

 

[Clarence]

Morning @kenstel ,
Not a Stella drinker, but I love lager (and lime). The bloke in the link above reads like complete ah_sole and when you get to the bit where he describes himself a "pretty much all-round awesome guy" we have confirmation.
Stella isn't a true SMaSH as its ingredients list reveals an adjunct, maize. It would be easy to make good lager with Belgian pilsner malt, maize and Saaz hops, but to be in with a chance of it's tasting like Stella, you need to do a bit of research into the water chemistry of Louven and try to track down the yeast. Isn't there an unfiltered version of Stella in the market? You might try culturing the yeast. Whether it's finished with the primary yeast, I have no idea, but it's worth a try. The comment that because it's a SMaSH, and therefore unsophisticated, that most of the flavour is going to come from the yeast is just nonsense. The yeast will affect the character of the beer, but we want the flavour of the malt in the fore, nicely balanced with a dry bitterness and delicate aroma of the Saz hops.
If I couldn't pin down the yeast, I think I'd go for Fermentis' Hurlimann variety for it's very slight fruity/floral, but mainly neutral character, sorry, can't remember the number.
Not exactly a recipe, I know, but pointers in the right direction, I hope.
Who knows, I might even have a go if I come across some unfiltered.

 

[Clarence]

Hi pedro
I had a look for this just a few days ago. Wasn't looking for a kit but a recipe. I found mention of a clone recipe for SM but it was from an old book (pre-2010 I think) and the comments weren't particularly favourable.

Seem to remember it used rice and golden syrup. Don't think anyone has cracked either recipe so don't think they'll be any kits.

Hopefully this post will bump the thread and may be someone else will be able to add something.

I remember that recipe. Isn't it Dave Line's recipe for Carlsberg Special Brew in... Like those You Buy?

 

[Clarence]

Hi All I’ve currently got 2 ales on the go a Woodfords Wherry and a Festival Pride of London porter.
I’m now wanting to start a larger brew but using a kit rather than attempting to mix up my own.
Now the question is is there any kits out there that taste like a San Miguel or Estrella lager?
I’ve tried the Coopers Canadian many years ago and was unimpressed.
Can anyone recommend anything?
Cheers
Pete

If I were you, I'd move away from kits and (if you're not ready for all grain) into malt extract beers. You would have much more control over your brew this way. I'm pretty sure there are extracts available which are pale enough for lagers.
You might want to look at a book called "Clone Brews" by the Szamatulski brats. Personally I hate it, but it's a great kicking off point for someone getting into extract brewing. Some of the malt syrups are only available in the US, but a quick chat with any of the homebrew suppliers will identify equivalents at least as good and probably better.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Hi All I’ve currently got 2 ales on the go a Woodfords Wherry and a Festival Pride of London porter.
I’m now wanting to start a larger brew but using a kit rather than attempting to mix up my own.
Now the question is is there any kits out there that taste like a San Miguel or Estrella lager?
I’ve tried the Coopers Canadian many years ago and was unimpressed.
Can anyone recommend anything?
Cheers
Pete

The nearest I get to doing a lager is using a cali common yeast (i've not used true lager yeasts as they need low temps)
with extra light dried malt extract
and tettnang or saaz hops boil to do a hop boil.
don't boil the extract it doesn't need boiling and will darken the beer.
you get a pale beer lagerish beer that will pour clear when left in the bottle for 5-6 weeks.

doesn't take much longer than doing a kit.
Stirring 3kg of DME or so is a pain in the arm though.

 

[An Ankoù]

If I were you, I'd move away from kits and (if you're not ready for all grain) into malt extract beers. You would have much more control over your brew this way. I'm pretty sure there are extracts available which are pale enough for lagers.
You might want to look at a book called "Clone Brews" by the Szamatulski brats. Personally I hate it, but it's a great kicking off point for someone getting into extract brewing. Some of the malt syrups are only available in the US, but a quick chat with any of the homebrew suppliers will identify equivalents at least as good and probably better.

Sound advice.

 

[kenstel]

I remember that recipe. Isn't it Dave Line's recipe for Carlsberg Special Brew in... Like those You Buy?

Yes, I think it was. Well done! I recognised the name when I read of the recipe but couldn't think of it for pedro. Not sure of the book title, but it ease old, but almost certain it was Dave Line.

Will at least pedro has some more interest in his thread!

I don't drink lager except in a pub and that's because its been a very long time since I had a decently kept beer. When out, I drink lager because its safer. When on holiday abroad there's little option to drink lager!

There's only 3 lagers I actually like, San Miguel, Estrella Dam and Stella Artois. I used to like Grolsh a long time ago.

I'd have a go at brewing any of those 3 if there were a decent taste-a-like, but I couldn't find one, and none of you learned Brewers have suggested one either so I'm guessing they don't exist.

I think it's a shame that the yanks have so much influence on beer. I mean, they invented busweiser! And stole a name from a great Czech beer as well.

 

[Clarence]

There's only 3 lagers I actually like, San Miguel, Estrella Dam and Stella Artois. I used to like Grolsh a long time ago.

Well those are 3 quite different lagers. I reckon you could make your own if you put your mind to it. Sure, it's difficult to copy a mass-produced, commercial lager exactly, but, when I've tried, I've preferred my beer to the original; it's somehow fresher-tasting, probably due to not being filtered. I don't use temperature control, rather I brew in an unheated room in winter. It's about 12C in there at the moment.
I had a lager-drinker visit in November and I had 6 weeks notice to make him a brew. I had it fermented out with Lutra in 2 weeks, and 4 weeks in the bottle. Not exactly what I'd call lager, but he swears is the best beer he's ever had!
If you want to have a go, I can give you some recipes. It's very much about the yeast, MJ california lager is a good one, too. I make the same beer using this regularly. If I chill it it's like a lager and fairly crisp, I've I serve it at around 13-14C it tastes more like an ale.
There's certainty a lot of exploration to be done in this field.

 

[Sadfield]

There's only 3 lagers I actually like, San Miguel, Estrella Dam and Stella Artois. I used to like Grolsh a long time ago.

All ubiquitous beers, brewed to a price to outcompete other styles in the market place. It's probably fair to say that most homebrewers brew as an alternative to the availability of those beers, hence the difficulty in finding clone recipes.

I'm with @Clarence. A bit of trial and error and you'll brew something you probably prefer.

 

[kenstel]

All ubiquitous beers, brewed to a price to outcompete other styles in the market place. It's probably fair to say that most homebrewers brew as an alternative to the availability of those beers, hence the difficulty in finding clone recipes.

I'm with @Clarence. A bit of trial and error and you'll brew something you probably prefer.

Yeah, you're probably right in all that. Anything tailored to your own preferences is going to be better than a mass produced item, be it artisan bread, jewellery or beer.

 

[kenstel]

Well those are 3 quite different lagers. I reckon you could make your own if you put your mind to it. Sure, it's difficult to copy a mass-produced, commercial lager exactly, but, when I've tried, I've preferred my beer to the original; it's somehow fresher-tasting, probably due to not being filtered. I don't use temperature control, rather I brew in an unheated room in winter. It's about 12C in there at the moment.
I had a lager-drinker visit in November and I had 6 weeks notice to make him a brew. I had it fermented out with Lutra in 2 weeks, and 4 weeks in the bottle. Not exactly what I'd call lager, but he swears is the best beer he's ever had!
If you want to have a go, I can give you some recipes. It's very much about the yeast, MJ california lager is a good one, too. I make the same beer using this regularly. If I chill it it's like a lager and fairly crisp, I've I serve it at around 13-14C it tastes more like an ale.
There's certainty a lot of exploration to be done in this field.

Thanks Clarence, I'll take you up on that offer any time you like.

I find most lagers just a bit too bland. I like dark beers, so a lot of lagers don't measure up. I had dark beer in Prague some years ago and it was delicious, another dark beer in South of Spain in a few bars but not everywhere.

The 3 I mention just seem to actually have flavour (subjective and not everyone will agree).

I'm always willing to try new things though, so I'd welcome a recipe from someone who actually knows what they're talking about, especially if it can be brewed at a lower temperature because my heating equipment is tied up conditioning my recently bottled beer.

 

[Clarence]

Thanks Clarence, I'll take you up on that offer any time you like.

Here;s one I make regularly.I don't use Diamond, rather W-34/70 and it ferments well over a whoe range of temperatures. Gladiator malt is Carapils and Sour Grapes is acidulated malt. There seems to be a lot of exotic hops, but you can order them from here in whatever quantities you require, ie. you don't have to have 100 grams of everything Home Brew Store | United Kingdom | Crossmyloof Brew
But I would be inclined to get a full 100g of Pacific Jade as it's a great bittering hop. (Don't confuse with Pacific Gem)

 

[Sadfield]

Pacific Jade is a great choice for bittering a lager, although I'd be tempted to swap the other two for classic European hops, in the context of your reference beers. It'd make a good start point.

 

[Clarence]

Pacific Jade is a great choice for bittering a lager, although I'd be tempted to swap the other two for classic European hops, in the context of your reference beers. It'd make a good start point.

I see your point and I agree, but his criticism is that too many lagers are bland, while this one is full of flavour. True- not the flavours you'd expect to find in a European lager! On the other hand, a big whirlpool with classic European hops could be good (or it could be grassy).

 

[Sadfield]

So many options with swapping the late hops in that recipe. Wakatu and Wia-iti for a fruit free lager and lime.

 

[Clarence]

So many options with swapping the late hops in that recipe. Wakatu and Wia-iti for a fruit free lager and lime.

Or stick to Pride if Ringwood and reinvent Foster's.

 

[kenstel]

Here;s one I make regularly.I don't use Diamond, rather W-34/70 and it ferments well over a whoe range of temperatures. Gladiator malt is Carapils and Sour Grapes is acidulated malt. There seems to be a lot of exotic hops, but you can order them from here in whatever quantities you require, ie. you don't have to have 100 grams of everything Home Brew Store | United Kingdom | Crossmyloof Brew
But I would be inclined to get a full 100g of Pacific Jade as it's a great bittering hop. (Don't confuse with Pacific Gem)

Thanks a lot Clarence. Appreciated.

I've been on CML and stuck what I could find in my basket. I couldn't find Diamond or W34/70. I couldn't find sour grapes /acidulated malt either but it's available on The Malt Miller so I'll have a look to see if they've got the other stuff.

Thanks for the other comments about substitions - definitely don't want Fosters!
https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk/