What is the smallest three pot system that can replicate big batch processes

[Cluelessbutkeen]

Hi,

This is maybe a stupid question but what is the smallest brew set up that can accurately and piratically replicate bigger systems (electric) completely.
I ask as i want to experiment, probably with the weird and wonderful but if something works would like to make it in a bigger set up for parties.

By replicating I mean fly or batch sparging, 3 pot and a fermenter system etc.

Thanks in advance

 

[Sadfield]

Domestic kettle, 2 thermos flasks, and plastic water bottle for your fv.

 

[aamcle]

I've seen pictures of 1gallon breweries but BIAB is the best option when the batch is very small.

Aamcle

 

[Covrich]

Sadfield has come up with the best literal answer there!!

However what is it you are realistically trying to achieve? 1 gallon? I agree stove top brewing would be the best for that sort of size and quantity.

Having a 3 pot system for that size per say to me would seem a little redundant personally.

 

[Cluelessbutkeen]

Sadfield has come up with the best literal answer there!!

However what is it you are realistically trying to achieve? 1 gallon? I agree stove top brewing would be the best for that sort of size and quantity.

Having a 3 pot system for that size per say to me would seem a little redundant personally.

Hi, thanks for getting back to me.

What i probably was trying to ask is what is the smallest that can be up-scaled easily but mimicking the process exactly, the recipes i know are simple maths but does different sparging for example change the outcome when doing bigger batches or does it make no real difference. I'm just conscious of trying something small scale, liking it, doing a bigger batch and obviously extolling how great its going to be to all for it to turn out notably different due to required process changes.

What is the smallest piratical (Off the shelf) 3 pot system practically? reading on here and out in the inter-web 23 ltr seems to be the number.

In reality i'm probably trying to run before i can walk.....

Cheers

 

[Sadfield]

Domestic kettle, 2 thermos flasks, and plastic water bottle for your fv.

Many a true word said in jest. We actually had an American homebrewer turn up to a club meeting. He worked for Astra Zeneca and was in town for 3 weeks of meetings at the local AZ plant, and did brew at this scale to alleviate some of the hotel boredom. Although he was doing it BIAB. Unfortunately, he had returned home before our next meeting, so we never got to try the beer.

The point to take away is, it's all scalable as long as you have a way of holding temperature, filtering wort from grain, maintaining a boil and then cooling wort. Buy the kit that will accommodate the largest batch you want to do. Most 3 vessel kits should handle going as low as 10-20% of their maximum batch size. After that, improvise with whatever is at hand in the kitchen.

 

[Cluelessbutkeen]

Perfect, thanks for the advice.

 

[Covrich]

I think Sadfield really nails it

You can always buy bigger pots and pans to accomodate or brew 5 litres or 20 litres..

You just need to make sure you can heat it all and boil it all. properly

 

[simon12]

Hi, thanks for getting back to me.

What i probably was trying to ask is what is the smallest that can be up-scaled easily but mimicking the process exactly, the recipes i know are simple maths but does different sparging for example change the outcome when doing bigger batches or does it make no real difference. I'm just conscious of trying something small scale, liking it, doing a bigger batch and obviously extolling how great its going to be to all for it to turn out notably different due to required process changes.

What is the smallest piratical (Off the shelf) 3 pot system practically? reading on here and out in the inter-web 23 ltr seems to be the number.

In reality i'm probably trying to run before i can walk.....

Cheers

From what you say likely 23l would be best, the main issue with small kits is inconsistency as its hard to measure smaller quantities plus the grind of the malt will vary between the top and bottom of the sack and between sacks while it all averages out in a 20 barrel setup.

 

[DCBC]

To be honest, there are plenty of things which are simply not completely scalable from the homebrew to commercial scales, and many of these are to the homebrewer's advantage. There are a lot of really cool (and really expensive) bits of commercial kit out there, but a lot of it is required simply to overcome the challenges inherent in brewing in the volumes necessary to turn a decent profit.

Two problems that immediately spring to mind that affect commercial brewers but don't really affect homebrewers are:

- The hydrostatic pressure generated in large commercial conical fermenters, with the fermenting wort at the top pressing down on the bottom and restricting the yeast's ability to produce esters of the same kind that can be produced in smaller fermenters.

- The thermal mass of the huge volumes in commercial coppers means that it takes much longer to cool wort, making it harder to manage the risk of DMS formation

These are only a couple of examples but there must be loads more. In fact, I'd look at your question the other way: what is the minimum kit I would need to be able to make a.) good and b.) reproducible batches of beer and to what extent would scaling up pose problems to your process.

It also depends on the levels of faff you are willing to put up with. Once upon a time I thought I would never bother with all-grain, then I thought I would never bother with pumps, then kegging etc etc, I think you may need to play around with what you are comfortable doing and what your red lines might be and then try and design a system around these (and bear in mind that these red lines may well change as you grow in confidence!)

 

[Cluelessbutkeen]

To be honest, there are plenty of things which are simply not completely scalable from the homebrew to commercial scales, and many of these are to the homebrewer's advantage. There are a lot of really cool (and really expensive) bits of commercial kit out there, but a lot of it is required simply to overcome the challenges inherent in brewing in the volumes necessary to turn a decent profit.

Two problems that immediately spring to mind that affect commercial brewers but don't really affect homebrewers are:

- The hydrostatic pressure generated in large commercial conical fermenters, with the fermenting wort at the top pressing down on the bottom and restricting the yeast's ability to produce esters of the same kind that can be produced in smaller fermenters.

- The thermal mass of the huge volumes in commercial coppers means that it takes much longer to cool wort, making it harder to manage the risk of DMS formation

These are only a couple of examples but there must be loads more. In fact, I'd look at your question the other way: what is the minimum kit I would need to be able to make a.) good and b.) reproducible batches of beer and to what extent would scaling up pose problems to your process.

It also depends on the levels of faff you are willing to put up with. Once upon a time I thought I would never bother with all-grain, then I thought I would never bother with pumps, then kegging etc etc, I think you may need to play around with what you are comfortable doing and what your red lines might be and then try and design a system around these (and bear in mind that these red lines may well change as you grow in confidence!)

Cheers for the info,
Although i was thinking more of big parties (once allowed obviously ) rather than Brewdog volumes)