what ingredient/s makes a bitter?

[Pennine]

i brewed up a simple bitter with 85% golden promise, 15% crystal malts of various colors, s-04 yeast and flyer hops. its like drinking a pint of bitter at the pub. i have brewed all sorts of beer types with these various ingredients and sometimes in combo but i cannot figure out what specifically makes it taste like a bitter? is it the hops and s-04 combo? or just the english hops? the malts are not atypical and similar to other styles, or at least not specifically distinguishable. and s-04 to me doesn't taste overwhelmingly british in other recipes. any thoughts?

 

[RichardM]

It's the specific combination of malt, hops and yeast that does it

 

[MyQul]

The yeast is really gives a bitter it's flavour. Bitters are a really a yeast driven beer derived from the esters they produce. If you want to stick with dry yeast MJ liberty bell is the best dried yeast I've tried. Although Lallemand New England and ESB yeast might be good as I think these may well give you the esters your after

 

[Clint]

...and there endeth the lesson.

 

[Sadfield]

The yeast is really gives a bitter it's flavour. Bitters are a really a yeast driven beer derived from the esters they produce. If you want to stick with dry yeast MJ liberty bell is the best dried yeast I've tried. Although Lallemand New England and ESB yeast might be good as I think these may well give you the esters your after

Love Liberty Bell in lots of styles. Have you used Empire ale in a Bitter? Going to try pitching both in a bitter to get the attenuation of LB and the esters of EA, rather than trying to order something liquid.

 

[MyQul]

Love Liberty Bell in lots of styles. Have you used Empire ale in a Bitter? Going to try pitching both in a bitter to get the attenuation of LB and the esters of EA, rather than trying to order something liquid.

Yes, I've used EA. But I didnt think it gave as much esters as LB. I used both in bitters with only a bittering charge of hops and no late hops. I much prefered the Bitter made with LB

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The yeast is really gives a bitter it's flavour. Bitters are a really a yeast driven beer derived from the esters they produce.

The yeast is important - but so is everything else. A hefeweizen is driven by its yeast almost to the exclusion of anything else, West Coast IPAs are all about hops, Irish stouts are defined by their grains, lagers depend on a particular water and carbonation. But a bitter is different in that it depends on water, yeast, hops, grist and carbonation coming together in balance, each making a distinct contribution but not overwhelming the others.

There's some room for flexibility around where you find that balance, as you can see with eg the southern bitters that tend to use more crystal, and the higher mineral content in the water of Burton/Yorkshire bitters, but you should be able to detect the contribution of all the components.

Just as an aside to @Pennine - that's a lot of crystal, that looks more like an American idea of bitter rather than a British recipe. The main Fuller's beers are on the high end of what I care for and are only 7.2% light crystal, Yorkshire beers tend to be more like 2-3% crystal, and of course certain Manchester bitters have no crystal at all.

 

[MickDundee]

The yeast is really gives a bitter it's flavour. Bitters are a really a yeast driven beer derived from the esters they produce. If you want to stick with dry yeast MJ liberty bell is the best dried yeast I've tried. Although Lallemand New England and ESB yeast might be good as I think these may well give you the esters your after

I like the Lallemand ESB a lot. It’s a poor attenuator though so you need a bit of sugar in the recipe.

 

[Pennine]

The yeast is important - but so is everything else. A hefeweizen is driven by its yeast almost to the exclusion of anything else, West Coast IPAs are all about hops, Irish stouts are defined by their grains, lagers depend on a particular water and carbonation. But a bitter is different in that it depends on water, yeast, hops, grist and carbonation coming together in balance, each making a distinct contribution but not overwhelming the others.

There's some room for flexibility around where you find that balance, as you can see with eg the southern bitters that tend to use more crystal, and the higher mineral content in the water of Burton/Yorkshire bitters, but you should be able to detect the contribution of all the components.

Just as an aside to @Pennine - that's a lot of crystal, that looks more like an American idea of bitter rather than a British recipe. The main Fuller's beers are on the high end of what I care for and are only 7.2% light crystal, Yorkshire beers tend to be more like 2-3% crystal, and of course certain Manchester bitters have no crystal at all.

thanks this makes sense thats its a combination, and the balance of the 4 regional ingredients is more important than any individual part.

yeah i stole that recipe from and american clone of fullers esb. i usually prefer that max of 7.5% crystal for most recipes, although this one is surprisingly good, its probably helping offset my heavy hand at bittering hops.

i was always under the impression bitters tended to be more crystal heavy but am obviously wrong.

 

[GerritT]

i brewed up a simple bitter with 85% golden promise, 15% crystal malts of various colors, s-04 yeast and flyer hops. its like drinking a pint of bitter at the pub. i have brewed all sorts of beer types with these various ingredients and sometimes in combo but i cannot figure out what specifically makes it taste like a bitter? is it the hops and s-04 combo? or just the english hops? the malts are not atypical and similar to other styles, or at least not specifically distinguishable. and s-04 to me doesn't taste overwhelmingly british in other recipes. any thoughts?

A mother in law that thinks only expensive wine is a proper drink

 

[MyQul]

I like the Lallemand ESB a lot. It’s a poor attenuator though so you need a bit of sugar in the recipe.

You could always mix it with something like notty to get the attenuation up

What's the flavour profile like?

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi @Pennine

What do you think of those Flyer hops? I've used them before and ISTR liking them, feeling they were quite like Goldings but a bit spicier, with a distinct hint of yellow mustard powder, are you getting those impressions?

Cheers, PhilB

 

[MickDundee]

You could always mix it with something like notty to get the attenuation up

What's the flavour profile like?

In all honesty I can’t remember because it was almost a year ago. It was the same recipe I’d used previously with MJLB and I remember it tasting much more like a pub golden ale than the first time. I haven’t brewed the style that would use that yeast since (although my current celiea pale maybe would have benefitted from it).

 

[Pennine]

Hi @Pennine

What do you think of those Flyer hops? I've used them before and ISTR liking them, feeling they were quite like Goldings but a bit spicier, with a distinct hint of yellow mustard powder, are you getting those impressions?

Cheers, PhilB

yeah that is a really good description. i might even say a mix of goldings with less floral and fuggles without the dirty earthiness. it actually makes a good single hop hop, as it is a bit more complex. ill give it a good tasting after its been in the bottle a couple more weeks and report back.

 

[BeerCat]

How much crystal, what SRM and what IBU should you aim for a sub 4% bitter? Never made one.

 

[Cwrw666]

As I understand it bitter is quite a broad description and that historically it evolved from pale ales. Basically just pale ale plus something to give it a brownish colour. 20th century bitters were basically pale ale plus invert sugars plus caramel for colouring. The hangovers were thrown in for free.

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi @BeerCat

How much crystal, what SRM and what IBU should you aim for a sub 4% bitter? Never made one.

... I find the grist that Wheeler gives for his Black Sheep Best Bitter clone (in "BYOBRA") just about right for me ... that's 5% (medium) Crystal, 10% Torrified Wheat and the rest Pale Malt but with a tiny Black Malt addition for colour adjustment (like it's literally just around 8g in 23 lts depending on the colour of Crystal you get) ... made to an OG of 1.038, all that Torry seems to add a bit of body so it doesn't end up too thin ... that colour adjustment is to 18 EBC, but that's using Wheeler's preferred (MCU) method of calculating colour, and if you're using software that uses the Morey formula (most software does) then that's 13.4 EBC ... and then that's all balanced off with hops to 31IBU (around 2/3 of the overall weight for full boil and 1/3 late (around 10 mins)) of your choice and a characterful yeast, as discussed above

Cheers, PhilB

 

[NormanHurst]

I like the Lallemand ESB a lot. It’s a poor attenuator though so you need a bit of sugar in the recipe.

Resurrecting an older thread... I picked up some Lallemand ESB this week on a whim with half an eye on using it in a best bitter brew. On further research, its reputation as a poor attenuator worries me a bit. Brewers Friend suggests ny recipe should get down to 1014 FG which would be fine, but I have read of others getting stuck up around 1020ish.

If I added sugar, how much should I add and what can I expect in terms of change in FG and taste? Would a lower temperature mash also help?

 

[MrRook]

Resurrecting an older thread... I picked up some Lallemand ESB this week on a whim with half an eye on using it in a best bitter brew. On further research, its reputation as a poor attenuator worries me a bit. Brewers Friend suggests ny recipe should get down to 1014 FG which would be fine, but I have read of others getting stuck up around 1020ish.

I brewed a bitter with it that went from 1.040 to 1.012: extract with specialty grains and no sugar.