What gauge wires and fuse?

[skulltat280]

When wiring your temp controllers and bits and pieces, did you upgrade fuses in your mains box and what awg wires did you use?

Cheers folks

 

[Ghillie]

When wiring your temp controllers and bits and pieces, did you upgrade fuses in your mains box and what awg wires did you use?

Cheers folks

You'd have to be more specific...

 

[skulltat280]

You'd have to be more specific...

For safety reasons, like people use kettle leads for plugs to make sure the wire copes with the amps and voltage

To be honest I know nothing about electricity, but I'm good with my hands and following instructions so I'm confident of wiring and connecting up, it's what the cables and fuses are capable of is out off my league

 

[Ghillie]

To be honest I know nothing about electricity

No offence, but it's best we leave it at that. Electricity and DIY is just mental.

Cabling CSA is determined by the amount of current being carried. Fuse rating is determined by the CSA of your cable, basically. You won't know how much current will be carried until you specify what is being powered. 3kW kettle element, 60W tube heater, 25W heat belt, etc.

You need absolute specifics with electricity and if you're half arsed about it, things go badly wrong.

 

[skulltat280]

No offence, but it's best we leave it at that. Electricity and DIY is just mental.

Cabling CSA is determined by the amount of current being carried. Fuse rating is determined by the CSA of your cable, basically. You won't know how much current will be carried until you specify what is being powered. 3kW kettle element, 60W tube heater, 25W heat belt, etc.

You need absolute specifics with electricity and if you're half arsed about it, things go badly wrong.

Sorry mate, I see what you mean now with your first post

I've 2 x 2.2kw elements, 1 x 3kw element and a 75w aquarium heater (might go bigger on this though)

Controlled with 2 inkbird pid controllers

 

[Ghillie]

Sorry if I come across like a ****, but the repercussions can be horrendous. I just get visions of folk burning their house down...

What is it you're intending doing exactly? I wouldn't advise you going into your CU to carry out any work, but if you wanted to wire up a small controller for a fridge or something then that might be doable.

 

[Ghillie]

I've 2 x 2.2kw elements, 1 x 3kw element and a 75w aquarium heater (might go bigger on this though)

Controlled with 2 inkbird pid controllers

Not doing things by halfs eh?! Have you built this already or are you planning on doing so?

That's a lot of load, which elements are going in what vessels?

 

[skulltat280]

Sorry if I come across like a ****, but the repercussions can be horrendous. I just get visions of folk burning their house down...

What is it you're intending doing exactly? I wouldn't advise you going into your CU to carry out any work, but if you wanted to wire up a small controller for a fridge or something then that might be doable.

LOL not at all.

Starting off with 1 vessel with the 2 x 2.2kw elements (mash tun / boiler), 1 with the 3kw element (HLT) a 60ltr FV in a bin with the aquarium heater

 

[skulltat280]

Plan is to end up with a temp controller for each vessel

 

[skulltat280]

Should have mentioned the HLT and mash tun / boiler are 10 gallon vessels

 

[Ghillie]

LOL not at all.

Starting off with 1 vessel with the 2 x 2.2kw elements (mash tun / boiler), 1 with the 3kw element (HLT) a 60ltr FV in a bin with the aquarium heater

I'm already jealous!

So in terms off elements you have about 32A if everything were on full chat. But that's unlikely.

What do you plan doing on brewday, i.e. heating what when?

Heat HLT
Pump strike water to mash tun
Dough in and heat mash tun with one element
Mash out 2 elements?
Ramp to boil 2 elements?
Rolling boil 1 element?

 

[skulltat280]

I'm already jealous!

So in terms off elements you have about 32A if everything were on full chat. But that's unlikely.

What do you plan doing on brewday, i.e. heating what when?

Heat HLT
Pump strike water to mash tun
Dough in and heat mash tun with one element
Mash out 2 elements?
Ramp to boil 2 elements?
Rolling boil 1 element?

Heat HLT a few degrees above strike temp, turn off
Mash with 1 element if needed
Heat sparge water in HLT then turn off again
2 elements in boiler to bring to a boil then switch 1 off

I appreciate your time BTW

 

[terrym]

@skulltat280
I'm not sure what you are saying here but if you intend to make serious changes to the wiring and installed electrical kit in your property then you may require a Part P Certificate which must be provided by a qualified electrician and confirms the work has been carried out to the appropriate standard. This has been part of the Building Regs since 2005. To get the work done without the Part P may be illegal. And if/when you get to sell your property and no Part P is there it may cause you problems.

 

[Ghillie]

Heat HLT a few degrees above strike temp, turn off
Mash with 1 element if needed
Heat sparge water in HLT then turn off again
2 elements in boiler to bring to a boil then switch 1 off

I appreciate your time BTW

Cool, if you're doing it that way then your max current draw at any one time will be ~23A.

2.5mm cabling in a ring main for example will cope with 23A, your typical 3 pin socket won't though. So you'd really need something like this to replace a double socket in a ring main for example. That would handle the 23A no problem.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-switched-socket-32a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip67/6423f

You could then connect a control panel (housing your PID's) to the blue switched socket via a length of flex (2.5mm CSA minimum). And to be really clever, you could also interlock your switches for the elements to prevent accidentally turning them all on together and potentially overloading your supply cabling.

If you're running a new cable from the consumer unit to your gear - then it's just a matter of getting a big enough cable to comfortably handle your maximum current draw, the correct fuse/MCCB to protect that cable and a socket outlet that can handle the current draw.

Disclaimer, I'm not a domestic electrician - so please don't take my advice literally. Consult someone with all the tickets, qualifications, etc. They will be able to tell you exactly what can and can't be done.

Don't worry about my time, I'm likely wasting yours

 

[skulltat280]

@skulltat280
I'm not sure what you are saying here but if you intend to make serious changes to the wiring and installed electrical kit in your property then you may require a Part P Certificate which must be provided by a qualified electrician and confirms the work has been carried out to the appropriate standard. This has been part of the Building Regs since 2005. To get the work done without the Part P may be illegal. And if/when you get to sell your property and no Part P is there it may cause you problems.

Not at all lol, i just wondered if people upgraded anything in their electrical system when brewing with an electric set up

 

[skulltat280]

Cool, if you're doing it that way then your max current draw at any one time will be ~19A.

2.5mm cabling in a ring main for example will cope with 19A, your typical 3 pin socket won't though. So you'd really need something like this to replace a double socket in a ring main for example. That would handle the 19A no problem.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-switched-socket-32a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip67/6423f

You could then connect a control panel (housing your PID's) to the blue switched socket via a length of flex (2.5mm CSA minimum). And to be really clever, you could also interlock your switches for the elements to prevent accidentally turning them all on together and potentially overloading your supply cabling.

If you're running a new cable from the consumer unit to your gear - then it's just a matter of getting a big enough cable to comfortably handle your maximum current draw, the correct fuse/MCCB to protect that cable and a socket outlet that can handle the current draw.

Disclaimer, I'm not a domestic electrician - so please don't take my advice literally. Consult someone with all the tickets, qualifications, etc. They will be able to tell you exactly what can and can't be done.

Don't worry about my time, I'm likely wasting yours

LOL, many thanks in all serious

 

[stz]

Back in darker and more ignorant times I used to run a 3kW element off a 13a domestic plug socket. I think I calculated it out as 12.5a warm under load, but the cold start initial impedance was more like 22.27a (from memory!). This means ideally it should have been wired into a 30/32a radial main and if switched, with a large gap double pole isolator to prevent arcing. It was fine when I lived in a house with one in the kitchen, but I moved to a place that didn't have one. I used to go throw the main trip, plug it in and turn the plug socket on and then hold the RCD on that circuit up with a wooden spoon while turning the power back on. Once it had warmed up a bit and the resistance dropped everything was ... fine.

I no way condone such activities. I was confident at the time that the wiring would handle 12.5a for the duration and that the cable to the element and the plug and terminals were sufficiently heavy duty. Light duty domestic plugs would get quite hot and discoloured. You didn't want to try and pull the plug, turn the plug socket on and off or similar, the contacts are too light, the gaps too small, significant arcing, back to the future inside the socket. Again, I no way condone such activities and now I'm older and with a mortgage I wouldn't dare do anything other than wire it up properly. I also want to say that 'works' was not the same thing as safe, legal etc.

I haven't done a great deal of research on inkbird PIDs, but I'd be sceptical that they are rated to switch those kind of amps. You could use them to switch relays to switch those amps, but ... eh maybe I'm wrong. I use STC-1000's and ATC-800's and they are definitely NOT rated to switch 22+ amps on initialisation.

 

[skulltat280]

Back in darker and more ignorant times I used to run a 3kW element off a 13a domestic plug socket. I think I calculated it out as 12.5a warm under load, but the cold start initial impedance was more like 22.27a (from memory!). This means ideally it should have been wired into a 30/32a radial main and if switched, with a large gap double pole isolator to prevent arcing. It was fine when I lived in a house with one in the kitchen, but I moved to a place that didn't have one. I used to go throw the main trip, plug it in and turn the plug socket on and then hold the RCD on that circuit up with a wooden spoon while turning the power back on. Once it had warmed up a bit and the resistance dropped everything was ... fine.

I no way condone such activities. I was confident at the time that the wiring would handle 12.5a for the duration and that the cable to the element and the plug and terminals were sufficiently heavy duty. Light duty domestic plugs would get quite hot and discoloured. You didn't want to try and pull the plug, turn the plug socket on and off or similar, the contacts are too light, the gaps too small, significant arcing, back to the future inside the socket. Again, I no way condone such activities and now I'm older and with a mortgage I wouldn't dare do anything other than wire it up properly. I also want to say that 'works' was not the same thing as safe, legal etc.

I haven't done a great deal of research on inkbird PIDs, but I'd be sceptical that they are rated to switch those kind of amps. You could use them to switch relays to switch those amps, but ... eh maybe I'm wrong. I use STC-1000's and ATC-800's and they are definitely NOT rated to switch 22+ amps on initialisation.

Think I'm going to ask an old electrician friend for advice / hook up

 

[Ghillie]

I haven't done a great deal of research on inkbird PIDs, but I'd be sceptical that they are rated to switch those kind of amps. You could use them to switch relays to switch those amps, but ... eh maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know much at all about Inkbird's PID's, but I believe you're right!

I watched a video on Youtube last night of some dude showing off his 1BBL system. His control panel had 3 Inkbird PID's and 3 SSR's in the top of the panel mounted on a huge heat sync. It was my understanding that the PID's were switching the SSR's.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
In my brew shed (brick outhouse) there are two 13A radial circuits, one for the shed and one passing through for the garage.
The cable for each circuit is pinned to the wall for its complete run so it should handle 27 amps, according to stuff I've read online.
I designed my control box with two inputs, one for each PID, and a socket on each radial circuit.
That way, my HLT and mash tun could be switched on together without overloading either circuit.
I did add small modern consumer units to each circuit, replacing the old ones. I believe I used 20A MCBs.
The PIDs operate though SSRs to switch the elements on and off.