What do we think about the whole independence thing in general?

[Nicks90]

I call “Little Englander Bingo”!

I have no idea what that is, must be a Scottish joke.
To be honest I don't care about independence, I have zero feelings towards that poison dwarf/shaved wookie that bangs on a bit in the news and I don't really care for bojo either.
If you want to leave the UK, leave and just get on with it. Just don't expect the rest of the uk to cave and 'give' you everything you want.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I would be quite happy if we did split up the nation.
If you apportioned the national debt equally per capita and the also split offshore assets proportionally - including North Sea oil and gas that was setup and subsidised by the uk govt and not Scotland and therefore each of the 4 nations should have a proportional ownership - the England would be financially much better off. Wales would be about equal to what they are now. Scotland would be crucified. NI would be bankrupt before it even began and would have to be absorbed by Rof Ireland.
Sod the Scottish. They can't have their cake and eat is just because of geographical considerations and benefit from all future tax revenues when the uk government set it all up.

Grow up

 

[Sandozer]

Independence.. So Scotland can be ruled by Brussels, ironic.

 

[MickDundee]

Independence.. So Scotland can be ruled by Brussels, ironic.

About as ironic as thinking the U.K. is better off away from Brussels, but thinking Scotland would be worse off outside the U.K. it’s always the Brexiteers that believe “little Scotland” needs Westminster.

For the record many of my reservations about independence are very similar to my reservations to leaving the EU.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Independence.. So Scotland can be ruled by Brussels, ironic.

No irony. Like it or not, countries are interdependent on each other, as the UK is currently finding out to its peril. The EU is no Panacea, but the relationships between its member states is quite different than that of the UK.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Nicks90 said -
Sod the Scottish. They can't have their cake and eat is just because of geographical considerations and benefit from all future tax revenues when the uk government set it all up.

Grow up

Although this is only a mild rebuke due to the subject this thread could quite easily turn nasty so can i ask people to keep it civil, thanks.

 

[MickDundee]

Although this is only a mild rebuke due to the subject this thread could quite easily turn nasty so can i ask people to keep it civil, thanks.

It’s the obvious trolls saying things like “sod the Scots” that are the issue, rather than the responses they revel in generating.

 

[Brewnaldo]

It’s the obvious trolls saying things like “sod the Scots” that are the issue, rather than the responses they revel in generating.

Its probably a fair enough intervention tbh, pretty obvious which way this topic always goes regardless of which forum you are in.

Just a shame that my post also had to get quoted. Dont really see the equivalence between the diatribe I quoted, and telling them to grow up. Meh. Out, yet again.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Independence what do i think, i love it it's how i have lived my life well since i was 16 on the odd occasion it went ***'s up, think i will have a beer no need to vote

 

[Cheshire Cat]

If we were to move to a federal set of states then England must be split to give more power to the North, the Midlands and the South West. The north has a bigger population than Scotland, Wales and NI combined.

 

[trummy]

One point I think has been overlooked is all MPs vote in Westminster on matters pertaining to England but the other countries have their own assemblies to decide their own specific issues. It was a mish mash before Brexit , its a real mess now.
This is solely my own observations - where I have travelled in Scotland the standard of living appears better than where I live. They even have heated public toilets, ours have been closed! (pre covid)

 

[Brianbrewed]

The Brexit referendum underlined that Scotand and England are going in different directions. How that plays out? God knows.

As for Northern Ireland. A Border pole is grand, but I'd be worried turning it into a zero sum game. The recent riots in Belfast shows that the peace process is literally that, a process.

 

[Pavalijo]

No comment!

 

[Pavalijo]

Found these on the “Institute For Government” site. A think tank but don’t know what bias this one has. They all have a bias and generally not to be trusted IMHO, but I throw these into the mix and hastily retreat to light the bbq!

 

[Brianbrewed]

View attachment 46372
Found these on the “Institute For Government” site. A think tank but don’t know what bias this one has. They all have a bias and generally not to be trusted IMHO, but I throw these into the mix and hastily retreat to light the bbq!

I have no doubt that these figures are accurate.

However, if I were a Welsh or Scottish nationalist, I would argue that these figures show that there is a lack of investment in these regions and over-development in the London and the South East.

As for Northern Ireland...................

 

[obscure]

My personal preference would be to move to a more federal structure right across the UK, one of the biggest issues in the past century has being the increased centralisation of decision making, so basically the equivalent of the Scottish and Welsh parliament in the various regions of England, with considerable powers devolved locally (ideally with only truly National matters i.e. defence and foreign policy decided at Westminster.

As for a second referendum on Scottish independence the reality is that their has being a material change in circumstances since the last referendum in the form of Brexit so it doesn’t seem unreasonable to hold a second referendum, especially if independence supporting parties win a majority in the next set of Scottish elections. And while I would hope that ultimately Scotland would vote to remain part of the UK it should be a decision for Scotland not Westminster, and if they did vote for independence I would hope we would wish them well and ensure an amiable split.

As for Ireland I really do not know enough about the domestic politics to know how a border poll would go, and if it is a good idea or not. Wales again I would prefer it remain part of the UK but if it seemed their was significant support for an independence referendum it doesn’t seem unreasonable to grant it.

 

[Brianbrewed]

One of the biggest ironies here is we're coming up to the 100th anniversary of the creation of the State of Northern Ireland.
Carson and Craig must be spinning in their graves.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It’s the obvious trolls saying things like “sod the Scots” that are the issue, rather than the responses they revel in generating

I have been accused of over moderating threads several times in the past so rather than remove the post and go down that road again I used part of it to ask people to be civil, seems I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

 

[MickDundee]

I have been accused of over moderating threads several times in the past so rather than remove the post and go down that road again I used part of it to ask people to be civil, seems I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

I appreciate it’s a tough job, and you were probably trying to say to people not to react to trolls, but to the reader it could easily appear that your post focuses attention only on the “rebuke” and not the trolling post that he was reacting to.

 

[Nicks90]

I do apologise if my previous posts were seen as glib or even offensive to our northern members.
However we all have an opinion and I will stick by mine. However possibly i explain mine a little better.
For a hundred years the 4 nations of the United Kingdom have developed, utilised and exploited national industries - rail, oil, gas, air travel / freight, postal service, NHS, defence the list goes on.
If one member was to split, it's unfair to cherry pick which parts of those industries you want to 'claim as rightfully yours' and reap those rewards as yours and charge the others to have.

So if Scotland was to steal oil, does the remaining 3 nations steal back all the subs and naval assets and open up bases in Wales and decimate billions in yearly defence income for Scotland? Same for the Northern raf bases. Or do we threaten to charge you for overflying UK airspace from your airports via the Air corridors and make you fly out to Norwegian airspace and then South just to get to europe? Maybe shut down your entire postal service? Remove you from NICE or other drugs and science services?
All of these (and many many more) are important national services that contribute, cost, enhance or degrade the 4 nations collectively. Hence my comment of you can't have your cake and eat it.
We either stay together or share it proportionally for the good or worse as separate nations. Maybe if you squint a bit then that does indeed sound a bit 'federal'... If so then I would support a federal United Kingdom.