Wee change of process - thoughts please

[kev]

My process is pretty standard and it goes as follows :

Brew
Ferment for 3 days
Dry hop if applicable
Leave to get to desired gravity
Move to secondary
Add gelatine
Keg

Now I'm wondering whether or not the 2ndary/gelatine stage is needed. The reason is that obviously the less you muck around with your brew the better because of infection, etc. It'll also save me time/effort/money as I'll be removing a stage in the process and won't use as much sanitiser, etc. In addition to that, as I brew 40 litre batches now I have more beer lying around so I can lay it up for longer and let it settle. I normally drink my beers quite young (prob 2-3 weeks in keg and then I start) but now I have more volume I can afford to leave it for a month or whatever in the kegs. Therefore it should settle out and drop bright on its own. Lastly, I was listening to a podcast (Brewing Network) and they were saying (in summary) that a 2ndary is useful to remove your beer from dead yeast, etc but if you're using a starter there shouldn't be as much dead yeast cells kicking around so that process isn't really needed.

So basically a couple of weeks ago I brewed a big 1072 IPA and dry hopped the life out of it. Last night I checked and it was 1012 so I moved it out the ferment fridge and into the cold (ambient) garage to settle as much of the yeast out as possible. Now is where I'm stuck as I normally would move it off the hops/yeast and into 2ndary and then add gel. However, I'm thinking about dropping the full 40 litres direct from primary into the kegs.

Anyone got any thoughts?

K

 

[Good Ed]

That's what I would do, no need to secondary, also if you store cool then your beer should clear without any gelatine. I bottle striaght from primary, a week or so in the warm, then into the cellar at 12c. I also drink my beers quite young and I find pale ales and hoppy beers are, generally, not best when kept for over 6-8 weeks.

 

[graysalchemy]

I use a secondary for obvious reasons

Would you leave your beer in this? :nono: :nono:

I rack to get it away from infection this is an extreme case but crud from even a gentle fermentation can fall into the brew and because it has been exposed to air could be contaminated with bacteria.

I also use a secondary to clear the beer, after the initial fermentation I rack it of the break material and yeast ( this can be washed and the yeast cake reused). It then goes in a secondary for a week and more yeast will accumulate, this then racked prior to bottling.

Now some yeasts compact fine and don't get disturbed but not all yeasts are like that, notty is good but us05 is a b*gger.
Secondary IMHO leads to less infections and a cleaner beer.


:thumb:

 

[Good Ed]

Well some people do and some people don't. I've had a lager sitting in the primary for 6 weeks with no off flavours, so it's very much a personal thing.

 

[oldstout]

: :

I use a secondary for obvious reasons

Would you leave your beer in this? :nono: :nono:

I rack to get it away from infection this is an extreme case but crud from even a gentle fermentation can fall into the brew and because it has been exposed to air could be contaminated with bacteria.

I also use a secondary to clear the beer, after the initial fermentation I rack it of the break material and yeast ( this can be washed and the yeast cake reused). It then goes in a secondary for a week and more yeast will accumulate, this then racked prior to bottling.

Now some yeasts compact fine and don't get disturbed but not all yeasts are like that, notty is good but us05 is a b*gger.
Secondary IMHO leads to less infections and a cleaner beer.


:thumb:

GA you've just reminded me, I followed the thread you took your pic from with interest and meant to ask you back then...

How do you sterilise stuff on such a big scale :wha:

I do all my sterilising in the bath, bottles, FV's, siphon tube etc - how on earth do you big scale guys do it?

:hmm:


:

 

[pittsy]

just clean well as you would your dinner plate and then spray with star san or something similar , simples

 

[wilsoa1111]

just to weigh in, i reckon a secondary is definately beneficial to some brews -as seen above- while others that have fermented correctly and cleanly with a minimum of fuss-eg from a dry yeast sachet dont need the secondary- u could omit the secondary in your case but i would:
Brew
Ferment for 3 days
Leave to get to desired gravity(just incase any co2 displaces the hop aroma could be swapped around)
Dry hop if applicable
Move to garage/ really cool place- this time of year is brilliant-u should see a noticeable increase in sediment at the bottom-called crash cooling
no need to add Add gelatine- will clear in a week max(also gelatin has been accused of reducing hopping)
Keg (could even put the hops in the keg-in a hanging bag so will stay away from the outflow so can be even quicker...)

 

[graysalchemy]

Old Stout. I clean as Pittsy says with a cloth and hot soapy water or some oxy then i steam over a kettle to sterilise then a quick spray with videne, bobs your uncle job done.

 

[kev]

Well last night I did something for the first time.....I went straight from primary (dry hops, yeast, etc) and into a keg. The beer was cloudy but nowhere near how bad I thought it would be.

The taste from the sample jar is awesome! 7.6% and dry hopped with 90g per 20 litres so it's got a really pronounced hop flavour which I hope stays!

I purged the air and put some pressure on it. Now it's laid up for a couple of weeks at least then I'll take a wee taste.

Next time I reckon that I will make use of my ferment fridge and drop the temp from 20c to 2 or whatever to really drop the yeast out more

K

 

[The Goatreich]

I find pale ales and hoppy beers are, generally, not best when kept for over 6-8 weeks.

I'm finding this also, the hoppy types seem to be best if polished off before being in the bottle for two months, which is contrary to what I'd believed so far.

I've been trying to get to the stage of getting beer that has been in the bottle for two months before even trying one, but that's only seemed to be true for my stouts. I think I'm going to start trying the following schedule for my pales:

Ferment 14 days primary
3 weeks roughly depending on OG in secondary in cold shed - dry hopping for the beers that require it
Bottle, leave for 1 week in the warm, then two weeks in the cold
Get it down my neck

 

[graysalchemy]

[quote="Good Ed":1lvty376] I find pale ales and hoppy beers are, generally, not best when kept for over 6-8 weeks.

I'm finding this also, the hoppy types seem to be best if polished off before being in the bottle for two months, which is contrary to what I'd believed so far.

[/quote:1lvty376]

I disagree with that one, i still have stock of a very hoppy pale ale and it tastes as good now as it did when it was first bottled. Yes it has mellowed a bit but in a good way still full of grapefruit and citrus notes and plenty of aroma, wish I had more than the 20 bottles I have left.

 

[The Goatreich]

[quote="Good Ed":3pvfjv0y]I disagree with that one, i still have stock of a very hoppy pale ale and it tastes as good now as it did when it was first bottled.

[/quote:3pvfjv0y]
But has it improved over that time? That's sort of what I meant sorry, there doesn't seem to be much benefit to aging the paler beers, as long as they've had conditioning time somewhere along the process.

The Clone Brews book gives rough times for the beers to be at their peak and how long they last before they start to deteriorate, most of the recipes seem to suggest that they're ready to drink as soon as they're carbonated, with the exception being darker or higher OG brews.

 

[graysalchemy]

The Clone Brews book gives rough times for the beers to be at their peak and how long they last before they start to deteriorate, most of the recipes seem to suggest that they're ready to drink as soon as they're carbonated, with the exception being darker or higher OG brews.

Thats because to drink as close to the clone it has to be drunk green, you would never get a matured commercial beer. They obviously only do that for commercial reasons, personally I find all my beers are better after 3-4 months I am drinking some which are at least 7-8 months and tasting rather dandy. :thumb:

Having said all that my session beers are 5.5% :whistle: :whistle:

 

[The Goatreich]

Hmm fair point there.

 

[pittsy]

[quote="Good Ed":2f14hbal] I find pale ales and hoppy beers are, generally, not best when kept for over 6-8 weeks.

I'm finding this also, the hoppy types seem to be best if polished off before being in the bottle for two months, which is contrary to what I'd believed so far.

I've been trying to get to the stage of getting beer that has been in the bottle for two months before even trying one, but that's only seemed to be true for my stouts. I think I'm going to start trying the following schedule for my pales:

Ferment 14 days primary
3 weeks roughly depending on OG in secondary in cold shed - dry hopping for the beers that require it
Bottle, leave for 1 week in the warm, then two weeks in the cold
Get it down my neck[/quote:2f14hbal]
you can cut that down a little if you want to Goatreich,
like 4 to 5 days primary , then secondary , (kept warm still) dry hop , keep here for another 5-8 days then cold crash it 2-5c for 3 to 4 days , then bottle . total time in fv's 14 ish days . 2 weeks to your 5 weeks , i bet its turns out as clear etc

 

[The Goatreich]

That's not dissimilar to how I'm doing it now. I guess the beer will need longer in the bottle to condition then though?

 

[pittsy]

3 to 4 weeks , but that depends on what style and if high og etc my whaets are ready around 0 to 2 weeks after primed etc lucky me i get a drink in around 5 weeks from brew day

 

[The Goatreich]

3 to 4 weeks

Exactly why I'm having a go at conditioning for that time period before bottling, hoping that the bulk conditioning in the secondary will help with the overall flavour. It all works out to roughly the same amount of time, but the beer is in one batch rather than individual bottles.

I've not actually tried it yet though, it may be no different at all. I have 5 gallons in the shed at the moment and it's been there for bang on a week now, and I'll look to bottling it after another fortnight.

 

[graysalchemy]

You will still need one week at 18-20c and 1 week per 10 gravity points for the co2 to be properly absorbed into the beer and 'condition'.

Leaving it in a fermenter for that length of time may also run a greater risk of infection unless it is something above 7%. I have lost plenty of 5-6% beers by leaving in the fv too long ie 3-4 weeks especially in the autumn when the wee feckers are about.

:evil: :evil:

 

[The Goatreich]

Hmmm, it seems there's no real hard and fast rules about this, which has been mentioned before. I mainly decided to have a go at doing it this way because it's how GW recommends it in his book.