Victorian Mild Mash

[Wodster]

Hi,

I've been lurking for a while with interest and now hoping to get some advice on an 1890's style mild X ale I'm working on brewing this weekend.

Modern wisdom on mashing says that a low mash temp favours beta-amylase and produces a highly fermentable wort resulting in high attenuation and low FG. But the sources I've read (mainly on Ron's blog) suggest that Victorian brewers would use a low mash temp, around 63-64C, for mild ales which were intended for quick consumption because it gives a sweeter more fulfilling beer but they still had low attenuation and relatively high FG. Higher mash temps were reserved for keeping/stock ales to retain more complex sugars which would slowly ferment out during aging. They also talk about using quite large CaCl additions for Milds to give a rounded profile.

Had I not read Ron's blog I would have assumed a Mild would be better mashed hot to keep fermentability low and retain mouth feel.

Does anyone have any experience mashing a mild at low temp and whether the resulting beer could be kept sweet as the Victorian brewers describe?

 

[IainM]

Mash high for body/sweetness and low for more attenuation. Its always worked for me and others (see, for instance, here and here). Ron seems pretty meticulous but perhaps he got it the wrong way round by accident?

 

[Wodster]

Thanks for the reply IainM, I agree, those articles are what I'd based my mashing on to date.

The things I've read seem to be direct quotes from contepmorary rather than Ron's view, an example, about a third of the way down this post is a quote from a book c1900

"High-dried malts are mashed at a somewhat lower temperature, since the beers produced from them are quickly consumed, and here we require a wort which contains large quantities and of those maltodextrins which give fulness and sweetness to the beer"

 

[IainM]

Thanks for the reply IainM, I agree, those articles are what I'd based my mashing on to date.

The things I've read seem to be direct quotes from contepmorary rather than Ron's view, an example, about a third of the way down this post is a quote from a book c1900

"High-dried malts are mashed at a somewhat lower temperature, since the beers produced from them are quickly consumed, and here we require a wort which contains large quantities and of those maltodextrins which give fulness and sweetness to the beer"

Ah ok, I think I get it, and interpret it like this: The guy starts by saying that beer for ageing uses pale malts and a high mash temp to have a more slow-fermenting wort which keeps the beer full of gas during aging. He then contrasts that to mild/young beers, which instead get body and sweetness from the way the malt is processed, i.e. from being dried at a higher temperature (e.g. Vienna, Munich or, more relevantly, what we now call Mild malt). This means that they can be mashed at a lower temperature for a faster fermentation, a process that would leave it with little body if only pale malt was used.

EDIT: I could be getting this wrong. Do you have any other sources?

 

[Wodster]

I've been picking through all sorts of stuff on Ron's blog about X ales and the mysterious AK and and the majority seem to use an initial mash 'heat' between 140F and 150F but have fermentation attenuation in the 60-65% range.

This article is a bit more meandering but contains quotes from a brewer's book and supporting examples from brewing logs which are consistent with the previous article. Mild is shown as having a mash temp of 147F (63C).

So if I use mostly Mild malt, which I intend to, I *should* be able to mash low and still retain the body and produce that sweet beer. I'd plan to use Windsor yeast which I've used previously with nice low attenuation which could help replicate soemething Victoriany.

 

[IainM]

So if I use mostly Mild malt, which I intend to, I *should* be able to mash low and still retain the body and produce that sweet beer. I'd plan to use Windsor yeast which I've used previously with nice low attenuation which could help replicate soemething Victoriany.

Yeah, that sounds about right, as long as it also has enough crystal.

 

[Wodster]

I wasn't planning on using any crystal. So far as I can tell during the period 1880->WW1 the most common things that went into the mash other than Pale or Mild malt was a small amount of sugar, rice or maize.

 

[IainM]

OK, no harm in giving it a shot. I guess Victorian milds were quite stronger than today so that should count for something. Now I think about it, I've got a Munich based beer in my corny at the moment and it is quite sweet.

 

[ACBEV]

I read Ron's blog a lot and very interesting it is too...

I brewed a Mild recently, with mild malt as the base. This was a pale mild (Tetly's 1946 recipe from Ron's blog). I made an error with mashing, should have been 65c, but ended up being 60c. So I gave it a second mash at 65c after 1 hour. So 1 hour mash at 60c and a second 1 hour mash at 65c. The OG and FG hit my targets, but the resulting beers is a lot sweeter than expected.

 

[Wodster]

I love it to, so many glimpses into the UK's brewing heritage.

Typical 1880-90's X ale OG seems to be about 1.060 and around 5.0 - 6.0 ABV, FG's up to 1.020 or so, so quite a bit of stuff left over propping that gravity up. I've still got loads of questions pinging round in my brain about what might cause the beer to taste malty and sweet with a 64C mash when modern knowledge tells us that beer should be thin and dry! Anyway, I guess I'll give it a shot on Sunday.

ACBEV, I just checked out that recipe, did yours finish at the 1.005 that Ron's recipe suggests? Did it feel thin?

 

[ACBEV]

^^^^ Looking at my log book again it finished at 1.009, so a bit higher. I did sub. the pale malt in the recipe for mild malt because I had it on hand. So I recon the 1.009 may have been a combination of mild malt and mashing error! I did say I hit my numbers in the post above, but that is a lye! ABV was short @ 3.6%. The beer is on the thin side, but not so much for a low ABV beer, its very drinkable, I could see myself in 1946 at the pub downing 4 or 10 pints...

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi,

I've been lurking for a while with interest and now hoping to get some advice on an 1890's style mild X ale I'm working on brewing this weekend.

Modern wisdom on mashing says that a low mash temp favours beta-amylase and produces a highly fermentable wort resulting in high attenuation and low FG. But the sources I've read (mainly on Ron's blog) suggest that Victorian brewers would use a low mash temp, around 63-64C, for mild ales which were intended for quick consumption because it gives a sweeter more fulfilling beer but they still had low attenuation and relatively high FG. Higher mash temps were reserved for keeping/stock ales to retain more complex sugars which would slowly ferment out during aging. They also talk about using quite large CaCl additions for Milds to give a rounded profile.

Had I not read Ron's blog I would have assumed a Mild would be better mashed hot to keep fermentability low and retain mouth feel.

Does anyone have any experience mashing a mild at low temp and whether the resulting beer could be kept sweet as the Victorian brewers describe?

Hi Woodster ,
Welcome to the forum , I've posted a recipe for a 1 X Mild from Walker's of Warrington on the old beers & brewing thread on here, don't know if you've seen it ?
Cheers
Edd

 

[Wodster]

@EddtheBrew, I hadn't seen it but I have now, interesting, thanks.

Think I'm going to go with a 2 step infusion 64C for about 45 mins followed 68C for about 20 mins.

 

[ACBEV]

@Wodster

I was doing a bit of research for a Best Bitter recipe and method. I came across this... AKA Fullers London Pride 1958...

The original mashing scheme was an underlet mash. It started at 144º F and stood for half an hour. There was then an underlet that raised the temperature to 152º F and it was stood for 2 hours. Feel free to replicate that if you want to go for full authenticity.
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/lets-brew-wednesday-1958-fullers-london.html
​

So, 62c to 67c... To me London Pride has always had a sweet edge. First time I drank a pint of it must have been in 1976/77

Seems its not so uncommon.