Using a mystery hop - and elderflower

[thehorse]

Hello all. I've got a hop plant that is running rampant in the garden which should give me enough whole cones to attempt a green-hopped late summer ale. Unfortunately, I don't know if I've got a bittering or an aroma hop on my hands. Would it be best to pair it with an all-rounder to ensure it's not too tasteless with no aroma?

Also, there is a lot of elderflower about just now. Last year's attempts at an elderflower summer ale were disappointing. I dried a fairly large amount, maybe 30g of flowers, and added it to the the boil. Do you think I may be better off making an elderflower cordial first and adding that?

Together with my mystery green hops, I reckon this could be a decent drink, but I'm slightly at a loss over the amounts, and whether just using the single hop (and elderflower) would do the trick or risk tasting of not much.

 

[Jordang]

Elderflower needs to be steeped for a while to draw the most flavour out I’ve found from my wine making... it might even be worth using as a dry hop addition....

 

[clyne]

I made an elderflow ale last year (which if I can remember right I got the base recipe from this forum and then adjusted). I used fresh elderflowers and it worked a treat - was lovely and flowery and summery. Just waiting for them to come into full bloom here (I'm in north scotland so we're a bit behind the south in terms of crop maturation etc) and I'm going to make another batch. If you want me to dig out the recipe let me know and I'll fire it up.

 

[Rugby Fan.]

I made an elderflow ale last year (which if I can remember right I got the base recipe from this forum and then adjusted). I used fresh elderflowers and it worked a treat - was lovely and flowery and summery. Just waiting for them to come into full bloom here (I'm in north scotland so we're a bit behind the south in terms of crop maturation etc) and I'm going to make another batch. If you want me to dig out the recipe let me know and I'll fire it up.

Bump.

How did you add the elderflower? And how much? Was thinking adding as a hopstand around 80C

 

[Agentgonzo]

Bump.

How did you add the elderflower? And how much? Was thinking adding as a hopstand around 80C

Either a hopstand or dry hop. If added to the boil, all the lovely floral flavours (volatiles) will be driven off.

My sister in law makes elderflower fizz in the spring. No idea how much she uses, but puts a bunch of cuttings in water with sugar and let's it steep. Presumably there is wild yeast in the flowers that ferment.

Hidden the similarity between that and dry hopping, I would go with a dry hop.

I was going to try and find some local elderflower here if it fits in with brewing a golden ale

 

[Rugby Fan.]

Either a hopstand or dry hop. If added to the boil, all the lovely floral flavours (volatiles) will be driven off.

My sister in law makes elderflower fizz in the spring. No idea how much she uses, but puts a bunch of cuttings in water with sugar and let's it steep. Presumably there is wild yeast in the flowers that ferment.

Hidden the similarity between that and dry hopping, I would go with a dry hop.

I was going to try and find some local elderflower here if it fits in with brewing a golden ale

I was excluding dry hopping to keep out the wild yeast tbh

 

[clyne]

I add between 100-125g (for an 5g batch) around 5 mins before end of boil to try to maximise flavour but also kill off any nasties present on the wild flowers. You still get a real hit of the elderflower.

 

[Rugby Fan.]

I add between 100-125g (for an 5g batch) around 5 mins before end of boil to try to maximise flavour but also kill off any nasties present on the wild flowers. You still get a real hit of the elderflower.

Would a hopstand at 80c not do the job of killing the wild yeast in the flowers?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Would a hopstand at 80c not do the job of killing the wild yeast in the flowers?

Yes

 

[clyne]

Would a hopstand at 80c not do the job of killing the wild yeast in the flowers?

Yeah it probably would, I’m likely being overly cautious. But ive also found that I get the desired taste using my 5min method anyway so it works for me. Would be interested how you get on with your hopstand though

 

[Clarence]

I made elderflower beer once, ages ago. It worked well. I made an MO / Goldings SMaSH with, I think, 20-25 IBUs and an OG of 1050. I added dried (bought) elderflowers to the beer after racking int secondary and let them steep until the beer was ready for bottling. I'll see if I can find the recipe.

 

[Rugby Fan.]

Yeah it probably would, I’m likely being overly cautious. But ive also found that I get the desired taste using my 5min method anyway so it works for me. Would be interested how you get on with your hopstand though

I'll report back, though because I bottle it'll be a while. Ffs, there's a elder tree outside my door but it's covered in lice. They've infested my sage as well but I'm hoping all the ants I see on my sage are after the lice.

Edit: ants are farming and protecting the aphids. I've cut back most of the sage and surrounded it with baking powder to give the natural predators a chance against the ants.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hello all. I've got a hop plant that is running rampant in the garden which should give me enough whole cones to attempt a green-hopped late summer ale. Unfortunately, I don't know if I've got a bittering or an aroma hop on my hands. Would it be best to pair it with an all-rounder to ensure it's not too tasteless with no aroma?

I see this was the OP's last post but just on the off-chance they're still watching - the whole bittering vs aroma hop thing is a false dichotomy. All hops have some bittering compounds and some aroma compounds and traditionally they were used for both purposes - think Fuggles or Goldings. The concept of bittering vs aroma only really developed once hops were specifically bred in one direction or the other, and a random hop in the garden has probably not been "bred".

It's a good rule of thumb with green hop beers to start at the back end and work forwards, depending on how many hops you have available - so with small amounts you just dry hop, and if you have more you can use some in whirlpool and/or as late additions in the boil. Just remember that you need ~7x the amount of green hop versus the amount you would normally add of dried hop, to allow for the extra water content.

Also, there is a lot of elderflower about just now. Last year's attempts at an elderflower summer ale were disappointing. I dried a fairly large amount, maybe 30g of flowers, and added it to the the boil. Do you think I may be better off making an elderflower cordial first and adding that?

I've had quite a lot of elderflower ciders and it's a pretty good rule that the ones that are "dry-elderflowered" struggle to deliver enough elderflower-iness, whereas the ones that use syrup are rather more satisfying. So for a first go in particular, I'd suggest adding a syrup - it also means you can do trial additions to a pint of the beer to see how much is to your taste, before adding it to the whole gyle.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

For my elderflower fizz I put the whole flower in the bucket with as little stalk as possible poured boiling water over and then added sugar and champagne yeast and water.
For elderflower saison I put the flowers in the hoprocket and recirculated through from boil down to transfer.
Definitely more aroma of elderflower from the elderflower fizz but it's all on its own.
I think next time I'd hop rocket at 80 to transfer and then take the elderflower out of the hop rocket and put them in the fermenter during primary.