User Upper Lager / Marzen

[UKSkydiver]

Would appreciate your thoughts on this please.

Majority being dark munich, which I read will be able to convert, but there is a reasonable amount of base pils in there too.

May or may not throw in the torrified wheat and / or some aromatic. No basis in knowledge, just trying to use stuff up.

Recipe looks like a marzen type lager, but if anyone can suggest something different please chip in.

Yeast:
I have a choice of a half packet of MJ boho lager I can culture up (prob not to style, but hey) , or some W34/70 overbuild, or a packet of CML Hell.

I appreciate your time
Thank you

User Upper Lager
Märzen
5.9% / 14 °P
All Grain

11LitreBatch
70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 11 L
Boil Time: 40 min
Mash Water: 15.83 L
Total Water: 15.83 L
Boil Volume: 14.17 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1042

Vitals
Original Gravity: 1057
Final Gravity: 1012
IBU (Tinseth): 21
BU/GU: 0.36
Colour: 32.5 EBC

Mash
Temperature — 66 °C — 40 min

Malts (2.479 kg)
1.379 kg (49.6%) — Crisp Dark Munich Malt — Grain — 44 EBC
800 g (28.8%) — Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner — Grain — 4 EBC
300 g (10.8%) — Thomas Fawcett Wheat Torrified — Grain — 3.9 EBC

Other (300 g)
300 g (10.8%) — Brown Sugar, Dark — Sugar — 98.5 EBC

Hops (18 g)
8 g (17 IBU) — Northern Brewer 9.5% — First Wort
10 g (4 IBU) — Saaz 3.4% 3.4% — Boil — 15 min

Yeast
0.5 pkg — Mangrove Jack's M84 Bohemian Lager Yeast 69%

 

[The Baron]

Sounds Ok to me. I usually use the lighter Munich but as always most user uppers come good with some thought to them which it looks like you have

 

[An Ankoù]

Looks interesting, but I'd brew it a little shorter- 10L- and leave the sugar out. Or, If you want to lighten the body and keep the strength up, then use white sugar.

You could use up the dark brown sugar in this recipe:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/classic_christmas_cake_04076

 

[UKSkydiver]

Looks interesting, but I'd brew it a little shorter- 10L- and leave the sugar out. Or, If you want to lighten the body and keep the strength up, then use white sugar.

Yeah - the reason for the sugar was not enough malt (except the really dark / bitter stuff; choc, roast barley, black malt) The only other stuff I have is wheat and I'm already up to 10%

Is there a reason for specifically not using brown and using white. My simple mind thought there might be a little 'something' in the brown.

I'm leaving the cake recipes for Mrs UKS. She's regularly feeding our cake some rum concoction.

 

[The Baron]

The sugar may take your FG down lower than required as it is fully fermentable plus it thins the beer out and you may lose any residual slight sweetness to the beer which I prefer in that style but as I said its brewing to your taste so go with your preferences

 

[An Ankoù]

Yeah - the reason for the sugar was not enough malt (except the really dark / bitter stuff; choc, roast barley, black malt) The only other stuff I have is wheat and I'm already up to 10%

Is there a reason for specifically not using brown and using white. My simple mind thought there might be a little 'something' in the brown.

I'm leaving the cake recipes for Mrs UKS. She's regularly feeding our cake some rum concoction.

It might be fine, it's just that you'll have more than enough rich flavours from the dark Munich, I would have thought and the treacly, rich, flavours from the sugar might be a bit overwhelming. On the other hand, it might be lovely. I'm imagining something like a mild, here. Go for it and let us know how it turns out.

 

[UKSkydiver]

I like a sweet brew - so I will give it a go

As ever, I appreciate all of your thoughts - thank you.

 

[The Baron]

I've done a few like this AA using light Munich and Vienna and you are right they are akin to a Mild which as I have just said I like a little not too much sweetness in mine so a FG of 1012 to 1014 is what I aim for

 

[UKSkydiver]

I've reduced the sugar a bit and added / swapped a couple of malts I found (dark wheat and aromatic) to keep it in the 6% region

Does that look any better? Thank you.


Vitals
Original Gravity: 1061
Final Gravity: 1015
IBU (Tinseth): 19
BU/GU: 0.32
Colour: 32 EBC

Malts (2.859 kg)
1.379 kg (45.1%) — Crisp Dark Munich Malt — Grain — 44 EBC
800 g (26.2%) — Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner — Grain — 4 EBC
350 g (11.4%) — Weyermann Dark Wheat Malt — Grain — 13.8 EBC
330 g (10.8%) — Simpsons Aromatic Malt — Grain — 60 EBC

Other (200 g)
200 g (6.5%) — Brown Sugar, Light — Sugar — 15.8 EBC

 

[matt76]

Couple of thoughts/words of caution for you @UKSkydiver ;

Basic Brewing Radio did a Munich malt sampler in the last 12-18 months (certainly it was during the pandemic) comparing I think 3 different colours of Munich.

I'm pretty sure the darkest one (and I can't remember how dark) had a higher FG, and they postulated that this was because it didn't have as much diastatic power as the lighter ones.

Now in your case you've got a decent dose of Pilsner malt in there too which should help, but you might consider a longer mash to give the enzymes time to work, e.g. if you'd normally do one hour then maybe consider 2-3 hours.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the sugar. I don't think the style calls for it, but mostly I'm just biased because I've never used sugar in my brews (i.e. I don't brew styles where it's called for more routinely). Personally I'd either reduce the water or just accept the lower OG. But it's your beer so you can make that call

 

[UKSkydiver]

Thanks Matt for your (and other's) thoughts.

I will look to reduce / remove sugars; it was more the random malts I'm including, but seems that is less of an issue than the sugar.

Cheers