Underpitch -> Repitch -> Overpitch?

[Hop_on_the_good_foot]

Normally, I brew lower abv beers, nothing over 1050 really, so one pack of yeast has always done the job for me. However, I decided to brew up a bigger Christmas spiced stout:

OG - 1066 , Target FG - 1016, temp controlled @ 18 for 7days (now raised to 21).

Bit of a kitchen sink brew so pitched a lonely pack of danstar Windsor ale yeast I've had knocking around for a while. (Probably not the ideal yeast I know)

Anyway, I'm stuck at 1020 and my spidey sense is telling me its done. Its been 10 days. Normally I leave for 3 weeks before touching but I'm keen to get this one bottled and it had a very successful start, taking off in around 4 hours.

I realise now that I've underpitched. Now, being the lazy soandso that I am I don't want to drive 2 hours to my brew shop for another pack. I also don't really want to wait another week for another pack to arrive by mail.

Will it be the end of the world if I pop in a pack of safale04 I've got spare to help finish the job? Also, would a whole pack be overkill?

Cheers and TIA

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
Have you used any unfermentables in the brew? You're only 4 points above your target FV.

 

[Hop_on_the_good_foot]

Hi!
Have you used any unfermentables in the brew? You're only 4 points above your target FV.

Hello there. No. Just an oatmeal stout with ginger, orange peel and spices added @ 10mins, no lacto. I know it's 4 points and it's only been 10ish days, but yeast has all dropped out.

I have bad previous with leaving beers with additives in primary too long.,(My last oatmeal stout got this weird fat film on top which formed to mould when left another week) so want to either get this one into secondary for a bit of vanilla bourboning sharpish...

N.B - I know there is no link between oatmeal stout and mould, just a weird association thing of mine

 

[foxbat]

You can rehydrate and pitch the extra pack. The worst that can happen is nothing. For best results you could culture up a small starter from the wort you have and pitch at high krausen but for 4 points? Probably not worth it.

 

[IainM]

Another pack won't harm the beer, won't be overkill, and isn't an overpitch. It might not wake up without a starter though, as foxbat suggests, because of the abv and because only hard to ferment sugars are left. That said, what you describe is classic windsor, fast fermenting, low attenuating yeast and I wouldn't be surprised if it's just finished. Did you taste the trial jar? If it tastes good then the yeast was ok. If it's hot, solventy or phenolic, then there might be cause for concern.

Personally, I would just leave it another couple of days at 21C then taste and bottle. It's a Christmas beer and there's nothing wrong with a bit of extra body to warm you up on a cold winter's night.

 

[marshbrewer]

I calculate that as 69% attenuation, which I understand is pretty good for Windsor without lots of simple sugars in the wort, so I think it's done.

 

[stz]

Windsor can't ferment maltotriose. This might make up 20% of your wort. Expect attenuation in the region of 70%-75%.

Use this yeast pretty often and rarely find otherwise. Would expect your beer to be done at 19-20, especially with it being a dark beer. In terms of profile it is an exceptionally aggressive fermenter, takes off like a rocket, often done in 18 hours or less though there are often significant sulphur notes which diminish out by about day 5. Sulphur notes are exasperated by under pitching, but have found windsor very difficult to under pitch, regularly 'get away' with 500g in 20hl @ 12°P which is only 1.25*10^6/ml. Would anticipate brown trousers times at 3*10^6/ml really! If I followed the manufacturers guidelines it would be 1-2kg.

I wouldn't pitch another yeast in the hope of getting more fermentation. It'll be going into a hostile environment, it'll not get a growth phase, it'll be missing most of the essential nutrients for proper fermentation. It'll probably do the job if you hydrate it first, but it'll take a long time and will probably not be of benefit to the beer.

Have used a mixture of yeasts a few times, usually against my will. The rational is that you get a mixture of characteristics. Found it to be bollocks. You get one strain that takes off and quickly metabolises all the things a growing population needs and as such becomes dominant, it does most of the reproduction. The strain with the longer lag phase does work, but it doesn't work very well due to low cell count and the results can be quite unpredictable. There as a specific set of processes which happen in sequence where the yeast preferentially utilises certain things first and if you mess up the chain it kind of doesn't go right. Once used windsor and us05. Idea being windsor does the bulk of the work and us05 finishes off the maltotriose drying it out. Turns out windsor does the bulk of the work in 24 hours and then the poor us05 is left to finish the job over 15 days where as a proper us05 pitch would have been done in 5. Yeast really doesn't want to eat malotriose in a timely manner without a significant cell count fed up on simpler sugars.

 

[Hop_on_the_good_foot]

It's my first outing with Windsor, as i made a promise to myself to try different yeasts than my normal go to couple. I'm glad to hear that it is aggressive as the fast take off made me worry if pitched too warm (even though I know I didn't)

The flavour of the beer itself is pleasant though requiring secondary with something else, as previously stated, probably my vanilla and bourbon jar thats been stewing away a while for just such an occasion. I can't detect any off flavours, just warmth.

All of your lovely advice seems to be what I was hoping...Just leave it alone and let it ride a bit. Which is exactly what I shall do.

Will be using this yeast again as it looks to have cleaned up nicely...and with a serious amount of oomph!

Cheers everyone. Really very grateful for the fast responses.

 

[Graz]

Underpitch, overpitch, Wombling free....



Sorry, couldn't resist Sounds like a great Xmas beer though!

 

[Zephyr259]

I had the same with winsor, lower OG than you and it finished at 1.020, that was when I did stove top BIAB and I tried holding the mash steady in a very low oven, instead of dropping 5c, I actually gained some so mashed at just over 70c. Was a nice pint in the end despite having odd numbers for the style.

What I'm trying to say is I also think you're done, but another few days warm won't hurt.

 

[Hop_on_the_good_foot]

I had the same with winsor, lower OG than you and it finished at 1.020, that was when I did stove top BIAB and I tried holding the mash steady in a very low oven, instead of dropping 5c, I actually gained some so mashed at just over 70c. Was a nice pint in the end despite having odd numbers for the style.

What I'm trying to say is I also think you're done, but another few days warm won't hurt.

It's the biggest beer I've brewed, and the idea of finishing that high just doesn't feel right to me. I'm certainly reassured that it will be fine though now. I'm so used to 04 and 05 that I know what to expect day by day. Tis the fun of playing with new ingredients I spose...

I've just moved (been banished outside) from stove top to a bigger BIAB set up. Love the oven idea. I used to mash in a cooler then boil in stove top, which negated the simplicity of BIAB...efficient mind you.

Did it work with a bit of fine tuning?

 

[Zephyr259]

It's the biggest beer I've brewed, and the idea of finishing that high just doesn't feel right to me. I'm certainly reassured that it will be fine though now. I'm so used to 04 and 05 that I know what to expect day by day. Tis the fun of playing with new ingredients I spose...

I've just moved (been banished outside) from stove top to a bigger BIAB set up. Love the oven idea. I used to mash in a cooler then boil in stove top, which negated the simplicity of BIAB...efficient mind you.

Did it work with a bit of fine tuning?

I only did it once, it was my 4th and final stove top brew, tried it after the previous 3 all attenuated further and I noticed the big temp drop in the mash. I got a Grainfather after that beer and have been using it since. It would probably be quite difficult to hold a steady temp in the oven since they're not really accurate to the degree we need, especially at such a low temp.

My wife would kick me outside if she wouldn't feel guilty about it, also we don't really have a water supply to hand out there which means I get to stay in the kitchen making the house smell weird.