Twang/Banana-ish aftertaste.. Help!

[MonkeyMick]

Hey..

I've brewed a fair number of kits over the last five or so years, from Muntons, Bulldog and of course Wilko..

Without fail, every beer - regardless of style - I've made in the last 18 months has the same fruity twang, almost banana then a sweet aftertaste.

I clean and sanitise thoroughly, temp control each brew with an ink bird and tube heater, measure gravity with both an ispindel and hydro meter, then keg into cornies, and serve through a tap and lines that are cleaned with purple line cleaner.

Any ideas where I'm going wrong? My last lager fermented for 2 weeks, then I cold crashed and stored at 3 degrees for 6 weeks before kegging.

Is it likely to be an infection in some element of my equipment, or could it be something else?

Thanks in advance for any insights!

 

[hoppyscotty]

Think its an off flavour due to fermentation temperatures being too high.

 

[MashBag]

Yup. I was going to ask what the inkbird is at to.

Not an infection imo. Most likely yeast stress of some description.

 

[MonkeyMick]

The ink bird is set to the various temperatures the yeast requires..

If its a temperature issue, I'll try the ink bird against a couple of thermometers - maybe rule out a fault!

Thanks..

 

[fluketamer]

yeah it sounds like hi ferm temps. and stressed yeast.

dont forget that ferm temps get much higher than ambient temps. fermentation generates heat.

where is your thermostat probe.
when i got a thermowell and measured the temps in the center of my FV i found my beers improved ( and my chiller cycled more . ) lol in other words my beers were fermenting much hotter than i thought, well not much hotter like several degrees hotter but unfortunately thats enough to make all the difference.

i find the easiest thing we can do as homebrewers to make yeast happier is control the environment temp. the other things like cell count involve starters and such. dry yeast with temp control is easier imo.

 

[MonkeyMick]

yeah it sounds like hi ferm temps. and stressed yeast.

dont forget that ferm temps get much higher than ambient temps. fermentation generates heat.

where is your thermostat probe.
when i got a thermowell and measured the temps in the center of my FV i found my beers improved ( and my chiller cycled more . ) lol in other words my beers were fermenting much hotter than i thought, well not much hotter like several degrees hotter but unfortunately thats enough to make all the difference.

i find the easiest thing we can do as homebrewers to make yeast happier is control the environment temp. the other things like cell count involve starters and such. dry yeast with temp control is easier imo.

The probe is taped to the outside of the fv, and covered in foam..

I'll consider adding a thermo well to the FV, once I've double checked the inkbird isn't goosed...

 

[fluketamer]

that should be close enough . try fermenting a little lower

 

[Bitter_Dave]

I think it matters what temp you are adding the yeast too, or at least I've come to the conclusion that I get better results when I start off a bit on the cooler side and let the temp rise. This is what breweries do. With kits I think it is better to undershoot with the amount of boiling water added and then adjust at the end. I also have my inkbird taped to the side of the fermenter like you, but set the temp a bit on the lower side to account for the fact that the centre will be warmer. This may be easier to control if you are not starting off to hot in the first place.

 

[Stu]

Yup. I'm concerned that my wheat beer is going to suffer with the same problem.
I managed to keep it under 22c (the max that Safale S04 recommends, although I've done it at 24c and had no major issues) for the actual fermentation, but the last few days, I've struggled to keep my shed under 24c.

I know some folk say they have problems with their cellars etc. being too cold. It's easier to heat things than make them cooler.

 

[alfajerry]

With kits I think it is better to undershoot with the amount of boiling water added and then adjust at the end

I learned this very quickly.

 

[Davegase]

The probe is taped to the outside of the fv, and covered in foam..

I'll consider adding a thermo well to the FV, once I've double checked the inkbird isn't goosed...

Is the ispindle reading temperature correctly.

 

[MonkeyMick]

Thanks all..

I'll check the temperature on the ispindel, check my inkbird isn't knackered, use a thermo well, and try fermenting my next brew 3-4 degrees cooler!

Much appreciated..

 

[emmever]

Thanks all..

I'll check the temperature on the ispindel, check my inkbird isn't knackered, use a thermo well, and try fermenting my next brew 3-4 degrees cooler!

Much appreciated..

For my better understanding: what temperature are you setting during fermentation? Are you using the inkbird just to heat or also to cool down?

 

[MonkeyMick]

For my better understanding: what temperature are you setting during fermentation? Are you using the inkbird just to heat or also to cool down?

The inkbird heats and cools, to try and maintain a stable temp in the fv.

The temp it's set for is what is recommended by the yeast suppliers - but I suspect I may have strayed towards the top end of the ranges given on the packets..

 

[Bitter_Dave]

For my better understanding: what temperature are you setting during fermentation? Are you using the inkbird just to heat or also to cool down?

Using it to heat and cool, but where I live cooling isn't needed all that much. I tend to set it towards the bottom of the recommended range. If it is 18 according to the manufacturers I might set it to 18.5, which means the measured temp might fluctuate between 18 and 19 (although the centre may be warmer. This is for a UK ale, would be different for diff type of beer but I always brew these types of ales. Fermentation control was the best investment I made in brewing

 

[Rakey]

Temp is the most likely cause, as others have said if you can start off cooler the yeast will reduce the esters it is producing and most of those esters are produced in the first 70% of the fermentation process. A lager I'm currently doing started off at 6c, and gets a temp raise of 1c every day up until it hits 10c where it will sit for a couple of weeks, then I will raise to 12c max for another few weeks. Then it will be lagered in keg for a few months before being drunk.

Another thing you could add into your process is a diac rest and even testing for it before packaging. As it could be diac you are tasting, this is a sweet buttery flavour, almost werthers original, and will have a slickness to it.

There is also another thing to check, the amount of yeast being used, as a lot of the cheaper kits will come with low volume of yeast, you could swap out the yeast and ensure that enough is being pitched, as under pitching will also stress the yeast out and can produce off flavours.

 

[MashBag]

The temp it's set for is what is recommended by the yeast suppliers - but I suspect I may have strayed towards the top end of the ranges given on the packets..

It would be nice if you answered the question with a number you should run for election

When a yeast says 18-22, the ideal temp is 19. Which is gentle and keeps a little in hand for the heat the fermentation generates.

@18 it will struggle to get going.
@21 consider cooling in manually
@22 is the start of FFS

 

[Davegase]

It would be nice if you answered the question with a number you should run for election

When a yeast says 18-22, the ideal temp is 19. Which is gentle and keeps a little in hand for the heat the fermentation generates.

@18 it will struggle to get going.
@21 consider cooling in manually
@22 is the start of FFS

He's already said "The ink bird is set to the various temperatures the yeast requires.."
and he's already said he "
may have strayed towards the top end of the ranges given on the packets."
Are you an investigative journalist

 

[Herms bay]

Maybe it's the engineer in me but I never use temp control without a back up temp device. I have had inkbirds freeze my lager whilst saying 4 degrees and 26 degrees when saying 20. I have found them to very good at first then drift off into some other realm. I always check with duplex devices now like a remote temp probe next to the inkbird. Did you buy the Inkbird from new?

 

[MonkeyMick]

It would be nice if you answered the question with a number you should run for election

When a yeast says 18-22, the ideal temp is 19. Which is gentle and keeps a little in hand for the heat the fermentation generates.

@18 it will struggle to get going.
@21 consider cooling in manually
@22 is the start of FFS

I'd be useless as a politician - I've no tolerance for ********!