Torrified wheat in witbier? Issues with conversion at high %?

[darlacat]

Anyone have any experience of using torrified wheat in witbiers as the main component?

I'm considering a grain bill of 45% pilsner, 45% torrified wheat, and 10% oats, but would that volume of torrified wheat cause issues with conversion/hitting target gravity? The recommendations for torrified wheat generally are for it to constitute up to 10% of the grist; I have used torrified wheat in a witbier in the past - I think it went ok, but it was many moons ago, and I didn't make any notes at the time...

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Torrified wheat has the same extract potential as pale malt (36 points per pound per US gallon) so it should be good in terms of gravity. It has almost no diastatic power though so at almost half the grain bill you might be getting a bit marginal? I also find the head it produces to be a bit “plastic” if you go above 5%.

Malted wheat is also good (37 points) and has plenty of diastatic power.

 

[darlacat]

Torrified wheat has the same extract potential as pale malt (36 points per pound per US gallon) so it should be good in terms of gravity. It has almost no diastatic power though so at almost half the grain bill you might be getting a bit marginal? I also find the head it produces to be a bit “plastic” if you go above 5%.

Malted wheat is also good (37 points) and has plenty of diastatic power.

I know that malted wheat is technically out of 'style' for it* hence why I was thinking of torrified wheat (I couldn't get any flaked wheat).

How about 45% pilsner, 22.5% wheat malt, 22.5% torrified wheat, 10% oats?

I'll be doing a step mash of 50c, 65c, mashout.

*I'll be using WYeast 3944, and spicing with orange peel, coriander, and grains of paradise, which is where most of the character will come from, imo - not sure if using malted wheat will make much of a difference to the overall beer?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Actually I’ve just looked up the diastatic power of Pilsner malt and you are probably okay with your original recipe as far as diastatic power is concerned.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I just did a search to see if I could find anyone else wanting to do the same as you and had a result!

@MickDundee brewed almost the same recipe so it might be worth a chat with Mick?

View attachment 29171
First Lockdown Brewday for a while, a Belgian Witbier.
2.5kg pilsner malt, 2kg torrified wheat, 250g flaked oats.

Tettnang to bitter to 14IBU, then Orange peel and coriander for the last 20 and 10mins of the boil. Fermented using M21 Belgian Wit

 

[jMac]

With the stepped mash you will be fine with the torrified wheat. My go to Wit has the same proportions of wheat to malt and I’ve used torrified on a couple of occasions when I wasn’t able to source flaked.

The malted wheat will have a marginal effect on the colour of your Wit and will make it maltier with less of the desired wheat tartness. Might not be so much that you’d notice though.

Wheat flakes often seem to be in short supply from home brew shops. No idea why. But, as a heads up, wholefood shops often carry it (perhaps even Holland & Barrett?) and you can even buy it from Amazon (5kg for under a tenner delivered).

 

[MickDundee]

I just did a search to see if I could find anyone else wanting to do the same as you and had a result!

@MickDundee brewed almost the same recipe so it might be worth a chat with Mick?

Even with a single infusion mash I managed to get one of my best efficiencies.

 

[darlacat]

Even with a single infusion mash I managed to get one of my best efficiencies.

In that case I'll stop worrying about using 45% torrified wheat!

 

[darlacat]

With the stepped mash you will be fine with the torrified wheat. My go to Wit has the same proportions of wheat to malt and I’ve used torrified on a couple of occasions when I wasn’t able to source flaked.

The malted wheat will have a marginal effect on the colour of your Wit and will make it maltier with less of the desired wheat tartness. Might not be so much that you’d notice though.

Wheat flakes often seem to be in short supply from home brew shops. No idea why. But, as a heads up, wholefood shops often carry it (perhaps even Holland & Barrett?) and you can even buy it from Amazon (5kg for under a tenner delivered).

Thanks for the tip on flaked wheat on Amazon and in health shops - really helpful! Is it worth buying some flaked wheat? Or from your experience, will torrified wheat provide similar results in terms of body and flavour profile?

 

[jMac]

It’s a while since I’ve used torrified and I always use wheat flakes now (but only because I’m a stickler for using the ‘right’ ingredients ). Saying that though, maybe a Belgian could tell the difference but I don’t think I probably could....

If you’ve got the torrified and want to brew - go for it! And let us know how you get on .

 

[crescent city Mike]

I hate torrified wheat. There, I said it! I use raw wheat in a Wit and it does just fine.

 

[An Ankoù]

Anyone have any experience of using torrified wheat in witbiers as the main component?

I'm considering a grain bill of 45% pilsner, 45% torrified wheat, and 10% oats, but would that volume of torrified wheat cause issues with conversion/hitting target gravity? The recommendations for torrified wheat generally are for it to constitute up to 10% of the grist; I have used torrified wheat in a witbier in the past - I think it went ok, but it was many moons ago, and I didn't make any notes at the time...

I agree with @crescent city Mike , just put some raw wheat through the mill. You might want to add half a kilo of rice hulls to ensure the mash is spargeable.

As a matter of interest, Shredded Wheat is 100% wheat (I don't know if it's toasted at all) and Wheetabix has the following ingredients:
Ingredients. Wholegrain Wheat (95%), Malted Barley Extract, Sugar, Salt, Niacin, Iron, Riboflavin (B2), Thiamin (B1), Folic Acid. * Riboflavin, Niacin, Folic Acid & Iron contribute to the reduction of tiredness and fatigue add as part of a healthy diet and lifestyle.
I suspect all of the B complex vitamins are derived from brewer's yeast anyway.

Sparging a mash tun full of soggy Shredded Wheat would be a real bundle of fun.

 

[MickDundee]

As a matter of interest, Shredded Wheat is 100% wheat (I don't know if it's toasted at all)

I used shredded wheat on my first wit when I discovered my grain mill couldn’t handle torrified wheat

 

[darlacat]

I hate torrified wheat. There, I said it! I use raw wheat in a Wit and it does just fine.

Why the hate for torrified wheat???

 

[darlacat]

As a matter of interest, Shredded Wheat is 100% wheat (I don't know if it's toasted at all) and Wheetabix has the following ingredients:
Ingredients. Wholegrain Wheat (95%), Malted Barley Extract, Sugar, Salt, Niacin, Iron, Riboflavin (B2), Thiamin (B1), Folic Acid. * Riboflavin, Niacin, Folic Acid & Iron contribute to the reduction of tiredness and fatigue add as part of a healthy diet and lifestyle.
I suspect all of the B complex vitamins are derived from brewer's yeast anyway.

Witabix... Sorry...

Shredded Wheat would make for one soggy mash?

 

[MickDundee]

Shredded Wheat would make for one soggy mash?

I didn’t find it too bad to be honest, it doesn’t turn to soggy mush in the way wheatabix does - I don’t remember having a stuck sparge or anything. I only used 750g to try and make up for my torrified wheat not going through my mill

 

[Jim Brewster]

Weird thing is, when I add a small amount of malted wheat to a recipe it gives a really nice head, yet when I do a wheat beer with 50% wheat I end up with a rubbish head, it has happened twice now. The Witbier I've got in the fermenter right now doesnt look any better judging from the krausen, or lack of. I'm clearly not doing something quite right.

Weetabix [...] contribute to the reduction of tiredness and fatigue add as part of a healthy diet and lifestyle.

Sounds like it could be a good addition to a beer! Have you ever used it?

 

[crescent city Mike]

Why the hate for torrified wheat???

I don't like flaked wheat either. Raw wheat has much more flavor than either of the "processed" forms. Raw is easier to deal with in the lauter tun. Spelt is another grain that works well in a Wit although it has more protein than wheat.

 

[DavidB]

I don't like flaked wheat either. Raw wheat has much more flavor than either of the "processed" forms. Raw is easier to deal with in the lauter tun. Spelt is another grain that works well in a Wit although it has more protein than wheat.

Hi Mike,
I looked at using raw wheat in a recipe but got a bit scared off by it.
I couldn't find anywhere to buy it from pre-crushed and I wasn't sure if I needed a specific type/grade.
Can you offer any advice?

 

[jMac]

Hi Mike,
I looked at using raw wheat in a recipe but got a bit scared off by it.
I couldn't find anywhere to buy it from pre-crushed and I wasn't sure if I needed a specific type/grade.
Can you offer any advice?

MM seem to sell it, or at least did, as they’re currently OOS:

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/un-malted-wheat/
A pity as I would get some in to try, and see if it’s any different to the flakes in my next Wit.