Topping up Cider

[jceg316]

I have a demijohn of cider only 3/4 full. It's been fermenting so it's ok for now but there's a lot of headroom in there, and once fermentation dies down this will be a problem. I have some more apples of the same variety I can press, so was thinking of doing this:

• Pressing the apples
• putting them in a separate demijohn and adding a campden tablet
• After 24 hours add the extra juice to the fermenting cider.

I was wondering if this is ok or am I missing something? Is it ok to top up fermenting cider? It will cause some oxygenation as I pour it in but is this anything to be worried about?

Thanks.

 

[freester]

Absolutely fine. I keep some juice in the freezer just for this type of scenario. Thaw it out and top it up. Old fella in the village who makes trad cider just keeps topping up his FV throughout the fermentation. Makes it a little harder to estimate strength but the original estimate won't be far off unless the OG of the original juice is wildly different from the juice you're topping up with,

 

[jceg316]

Absolutely fine. I keep some juice in the freezer just for this type of scenario. Thaw it out and top it up. Old fella in the village who makes trad cider just keeps topping up his FV throughout the fermentation. Makes it a little harder to estimate strength but the original estimate won't be far off unless the OG of the original juice is wildly different from the juice you're topping up with,

Thanks for the reply. I'm not too bothered about the exact strength at this stage. I had a look and fermentation is dying down now anyway so more juice should wake up those yeasts!

 

[jceg316]

I just topped up the cider. I have 2x 23litre demijohns which need topping up, and 3x 5 litre demijohns,2 with freshly pressed juice, one with cider which has just finished fermenting.

You can probably see where this is going, but I topped up one of my large fermenters with cider instead of juice . The small batch of cider was a mix of apples from a nearby common, the larger one was a mix of apples from my neighbour's small orchard. Not the end of the world I suppose, mixing more types of apples does lead to a more complex cider, although it would have been good to keep them separated.

The cider in the small demijohn did get a film developing on top which I believe I've got rid of, I sulphated it and then added wine yeast and fermentation went back to normal. I hope I did and I haven't just ruined 23 litres of cider!

 

[MagnusTS]

This is my 1st year making cider from apples, so I'm not really sure what I'm doing.

I am in the same situation (but smaller scale). I have 3 demijohns filled up to the shoulder with apple juice fermenting away nicely.

I'd read that there can be problems with headspace after fermentation, and that when you transfer to a new FV you should fill it right up to the top so no headspace, to limit the oxygen. Does that sound right?

But, could I just leave my cider to clear in the the original demijohns for a couple of weeks, and then bottle straight from there? I am hoping the CO2 from fermentation will protect the cider.

 

[VW911]

Always best to keep airspace to a minimum. Cider can oxidise quite quickly.
You could always top it up with supermarket apple juice (as long as it has no preservatives.)

 

[MagnusTS]

Supermarket juice top up is a great tip thanks.

Do you mean I should top up my primary FV now, or do you mean if I racked to a secondary I should top up then?

Thanks.

 

[VW911]

Now would probably be a good time, if the initial fermentation has finished.
Maybe add a little at a time, until you reach the neck of the DJ, so as not to let it froth up too much.
Any sort of sugar added now (ie apple juice) will restart the fermenting process...

 

[DavieC]

Hi all, I've racked my pressed apple cider tonight from FV into 3 demijohns for overwintering in garage and 10x500ml bottles(4g sugar in each).The last DJ needed topping up so I added 1ltr Tesco forest fruits juice and 600ml apple juice to make a fruit cider.Ill leave this to ferment now for a couple of weeks,rack to clean DJ and put it with the others until next spring.The bottles are for interim glugging

 

[freester]

This is my 1st year making cider from apples, so I'm not really sure what I'm doing.

I am in the same situation (but smaller scale). I have 3 demijohns filled up to the shoulder with apple juice fermenting away nicely.

I'd read that there can be problems with headspace after fermentation, and that when you transfer to a new FV you should fill it right up to the top so no headspace, to limit the oxygen. Does that sound right?

But, could I just leave my cider to clear in the the original demijohns for a couple of weeks, and then bottle straight from there? I am hoping the CO2 from fermentation will protect the cider.

My thoughts on racking and oxidisation...

Usually I ferment cider in Fermenting Buckets. At some point (usually just after ferment has finished if I've added yeast, or if fermenting traditionally I may leave the cider in the buckets all winter until spring) I'll rack to Carboys or DJs. I top up so there's a 2-3 cm in the neck (to allow for expansion). That's it. In my opinion there will be enough dissolved CO2 that will come out during racking to protect the top. Just keep the 'surface area' small, ie rack up to the neck.

Nothing wrong with bottling straight from FV. You may just end up with a bit more solid in the bottom of the bottles. Personally I bottle when I have enough bottles spare and need some more in bottles for consumption!

 

[MagnusTS]

Hi all, I've racked my pressed apple cider tonight from FV into 3 demijohns for overwintering in garage and 10x500ml bottles(4g sugar in each).The last DJ needed topping up so I added 1ltr Tesco forest fruits juice and 600ml apple juice to make a fruit cider.Ill leave this to ferment now for a couple of weeks,rack to clean DJ and put it with the others until next spring.The bottles are for interim glugging

I like the idea of 'interim glugging'

 

[MagnusTS]

My thoughts on racking and oxidisation...

Usually I ferment cider in Fermenting Buckets. At some point (usually just after ferment has finished if I've added yeast, or if fermenting traditionally I may leave the cider in the buckets all winter until spring) I'll rack to Carboys or DJs. I top up so there's a 2-3 cm in the neck (to allow for expansion). That's it. In my opinion there will be enough dissolved CO2 that will come out during racking to protect the top. Just keep the 'surface area' small, ie rack up to the neck.

Nothing wrong with bottling straight from FV. You may just end up with a bit more solid in the bottom of the bottles. Personally I bottle when I have enough bottles spare and need some more in bottles for consumption!

Thanks for all the cider advice folks. I've got 3 demijohns on the go at the moment, so I might try bottling one batch straight from the primary, and see how much matter I get at the bottom of the bottles. And one batch into secondary with a top up of either supermarket juice or maybe some from batch 3. And what's left of batch 3 might go into bottles for 'interim glugging'.

 

[MagnusTS]

Sorry, a bit off topic, but while you apple experts are reading this thread:

If you were juicing or pressing just for apple juice, would you still add the campden tablet to the juice (and wait 24hrs before drinking)?

The juice I pressed onto a campden for cider was lovely and clear and looked appetising. But the neat juice with no treatment was very brown and murky, and children refused to drink it (it was still delicious of course).

 

[VW911]

I'm not a big fan of campden tablets.
Your best bet would be to either freeze, or pasteurise the juice straight after pressing...

 

[freester]

Sorry, a bit off topic, but while you apple experts are reading this thread:

If you were juicing or pressing just for apple juice, would you still add the campden tablet to the juice (and wait 24hrs before drinking)?

The juice I pressed onto a campden for cider was lovely and clear and looked appetising. But the neat juice with no treatment was very brown and murky, and children refused to drink it (it was still delicious of course).

Basically the campden stopped the juice from oxidising or browning, just like apples browning when cut or bitten. As @VW911 I just freeze juice, if it looks nicer a campden doesn't hurt I guess.

 

[VW911]

Lemon juice/citric acid will stop the browning.
Campden tablets are horrible.
A few years ago, my little pup "helped herself" to a sealed pot of them from the worktop. (totally my fault for leaving them out, and I will be forever sorry).
She only ate about three or four, but the resulting blood, and vomit that came from the poor little thing will stay with me forever. Stripped the lining from her stomach and throat.
Don't like the idea of that happening to me, so it's very rare that I will ever use one now.

So, Yes, a campden CAN hurt!

Thankfully, said pup is still with us, and in very good shape...

 

[Ron Bell]

I've never had a problem with headroom. One demijohn was only half full (because I'd run out of apples) but the cider still came out the same as the other full demijohns I had. Mind you, I was fermenting at a fairly high temperature (21 deg C) so that carbon dioxide was coming out fast enough to keep any oxygen out. (I don't use Camden tablets at all.)

 

[Aimee]

My thoughts on racking and oxidisation...

Usually I ferment cider in Fermenting Buckets. At some point (usually just after ferment has finished if I've added yeast, or if fermenting traditionally I may leave the cider in the buckets all winter until spring) I'll rack to Carboys or DJs. I top up so there's a 2-3 cm in the neck (to allow for expansion). That's it. In my opinion there will be enough dissolved CO2 that will come out during racking to protect the top. Just keep the 'surface area' small, ie rack up to the neck.

Nothing wrong with bottling straight from FV. You may just end up with a bit more solid in the bottom of the bottles. Personally I bottle when I have enough bottles spare and need some more in bottles for consumption!

In fermenting buckets with lids and airlocks I assume?

 

[MattH1973]

In fermenting buckets with lids and airlocks I assume?

absolutley yes, always seal and airlock the FV.