"Toasted" Beer Recipe?

[matt76]

When I was Barcelona last week I tried a few of these San Miguel "Selecta" - The can says it's toasted, and I've had a few similar "toasted" beers in Spain before.

Bit darker than your average lager, more amber, it tastes quite malty but not hoppy, 6.2% ABV - maybe it's like an Oktoberfest beer (but don't know as I've never been to Oktoberfest!).

From the can it boasts 3 malts and 3 hops. It lists the ingredients as malted barley, maize and hops - is there such a thing as toasted malt? Not sure if maize counts as a malt either.

Anyone got any ideas what the recipe might look like? I might have a go at a malty lager like this sometime.

Malt:
Base malt - 60-80% lager or Pilsner malt?
Some Vienna malt maybe?
What else could go in there?

Hops - I'd guess something typical like saaz?

Any other thoughts?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[Zephyr259]

Toasted flavours should come from the "high kilned" malts like the various styles of amber malt including victory and biscuit. I'd brew something like this as a base of pilsner with a hefty dose of munich then maybe a touch of something darker like amber malt. Might also get close with something like a vienna lager which is mostly vienna malt with varying proportions of pilsner and munich to balance it out.

I don't think you can malt maize, or maybe it's just that no one does. That will lighten the flavour and maybe make it more crisp which could be to balance out the increased maltiness you'd get from munich malt.

I'd go for something noble on the hop front, Saaz is always good in a lager.

 

[Sadfield]

+1 on Munich Malt. This beer sounds like a Märzen style lager.

 

[MyQul]

As others have said munich is what you want to add

 

[matt76]

Toasted flavours should come from the "high kilned" malts like the various styles of amber malt including victory and biscuit. I'd brew something like this as a base of pilsner with a hefty dose of munich then maybe a touch of something darker like amber malt. Might also get close with something like a vienna lager which is mostly vienna malt with varying proportions of pilsner and munich to balance it out.

I don't think you can malt maize, or maybe it's just that no one does. That will lighten the flavour and maybe make it more crisp which could be to balance out the increased maltiness you'd get from munich malt.

I'd go for something noble on the hop front, Saaz is always good in a lager.

So is there no such thing as "toasted malt"? Rather, (as you've mentioned already) does it mean we use "high kilned" malts that give a toasted flavour?

I Googled "toasted malts" and found instructions how to toast your own malts (now there's a thought for experimentation!) but nothing leapt out from the likes of The Homebrew Shop, Malt Miller, Geterbrewed etc where they were actually selling toasted malts.

 

[Zephyr259]

So is there no such thing as "toasted malt"? Rather, (as you've mentioned already) does it mean we use "high kilned" malts that give a toasted flavour?

I Googled "toasted malts" and found instructions how to toast your own malts (now there's a thought for experimentation!) but nothing leapt out from the likes of The Homebrew Shop, Malt Miller, Geterbrewed etc where they were actually selling toasted malts.

I think it's just a case of "toasting" being a vague term, maltsters often use the term high-kilned as they're kiled at higher temperatures than pale malts but not high enough to become roasted. Here's the page for Simpson's malts which shows how they break down the classifications.

Yeah, when the malt is kilned somewhere between the temperatures used for pale and roasted malt you get more Mailard reactions which will give flavours including toast, bread crust and biscuits. This is also what you'll be getting by "toasting" pale malt at home.

 

[ACBEV]

I'd go along with Munich and Amber malts, perhaps some brown malt or low colour Chocolate malt.

When I read the title "Toasted beer recipe", it reminded me of using toasted wholemeal bread i.e. 5 slices toasted and crushed in a blender, then added to the mash.

 

[jceg316]

There's this recipe I used to make which called for toasted malt, but the same book it was from said it can be made by putting pale malt in the oven. From what I remember there were no 'toasty' flavoured, more a really pronounced nutty flavour, it was great. This site is has some good instructions: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/experiment/toasting-your-own-malt. I didn't bother putting the malt in a bag for a week before use, I oven cooked the malt and put it straight in the mash tun. Beer was fantastic.

 

[Drunkula]

There are a few videos out there on it. I did it and made a brown ale but it was back when I kept getting polyphenol problems and the beer tasted like ****.

I had really good successes making crystal malt. I stewed them with a sous vide method in a chicken roasting bag (most other bags let water in) then dried them in the oven and roasted them to various colours. The biggest trick is the amount of water to use. Using more gets you an amazingly glassy caramel result but takes ages to dry. Haven't got my notes to check the ratio that was the best compromise.

 

[matt76]

Thanks all for your replies and suggestions so far, all interesting stuff.

So maybe something like this:
60% lager malt
20% Munich malt
20% Amber malt

Hops: something like saaz or halletauer?

?

 

[Sadfield]

Personally, I think this beer is more likely to be Pilsner, Vienna and Munich malt. Amber malt is more a British thing and probably a bit full on, if using it I'd use much less (5%).

I fully recommended the Randy Mosher's book Mastering Homebrew as it has a good section outlining the different types of malt, what they add to a beer, and in what styles they are generally used.

 

[IainM]

I used to live in Barcelona in my pre-brewing days, and before the city got taken over by craft beer bars selling decent stuff, so I used to knock these back like no business as the only alternative to the blandest of lager. Voll Damm and Moritz Epidor were the best imo, but they were all decent. The story goes that the trend was started by by Damm brewery in th 1950s because the head brewer was partial to Oktoberfest / Marzen / Dunkle beers and wanted to replicate the style back home. I brewed a Munich Dunkle a couple of years ago, with Munich as the base malt, and it's certainly the closest thing to a San Miguel Selecta I've ever tried.

 

[MrRook]

I don't think you can malt maize, or maybe it's just that no one does.

Here in the States suppliers of gluten free ingredients have malted corn.

 

[The Baron]

I used to live in Barcelona in my pre-brewing days, and before the city got taken over by craft beer bars selling decent stuff, so I used to knock these back like no business as the only alternative to the blandest of lager. Voll Damm and Moritz Epidor were the best imo, but they were all decent. The story goes that the trend was started by by Damm brewery in th 1950s because the head brewer was partial to Oktoberfest / Marzen / Dunkle beers and wanted to replicate the style back home. I brewed a Munich Dunkle a couple of years ago, with Munich as the base malt, and it's certainly the closest thing to a San Miguel Selecta I've ever tried.

IainM could you possibly post your recipe as it does sound very interesting
Thanks Pete

 

[Zephyr259]

Personally, I think this beer is more likely to be Pilsner, Vienna and Munich malt. Amber malt is more a British thing and probably a bit full on, if using it I'd use much less (5%).

Sadfield's got a point here, probably don't need the amber and even if you fancy it, could be tasty, 20% is way too much, 5% probably about right.

 

[matt76]

IainM could you possibly post your recipe as it does sound very interesting
Thanks Pete

Seconded

 

[IainM]

IainM could you possibly post your recipe as it does sound very interesting
Thanks Pete

Seconded

It was very simple.

25L, using Ashbeck water, 1.055-1.013.
6kg Munich malt
250g BlackPrinz
60 min Mash @ 67C
75 min boil
40g Hallertau (5%) 60 mins
10g Hallertau 20 mins
0.5 protofloc 5 mins
Mangrove Jacks M76 Bavarian Lager, 3 packs, ferment cold

This came out on the dark side, but the taste was there. I recon you could get away with doing it as a Munich / Hallertau smash.

 

[matt76]

I found this recipe:
30% Munich
40% Vienna
20% Pilsner
10% Caramunich 1

Then I thought ~20 IBUs worth of typical lager hops (don't know which one yet) for 60 mins plus another 5 IBUs worth for the final 5-10 mins.

Ferment with WY2124 or 2112 (I have no temp control and these are supposed to be ok at 20degC)

 

[The Baron]

It was very simple.

25L, using Ashbeck water, 1.055-1.013.
6kg Munich malt
250g BlackPrinz
60 min Mash @ 67C
75 min boil
40g Hallertau (5%) 60 mins
10g Hallertau 20 mins
0.5 protofloc 5 mins
Mangrove Jacks M76 Bavarian Lager, 3 packs, ferment cold

This came out on the dark side, but the taste was there. I recon you could get away with doing it as a Munich / Hallertau smash.

Thanks Iain is the blackprinz just for colour
Thanks Pete

 

[IainM]

Thanks Iain is the blackprinz just for colour
Thanks Pete

Yup, just for colour, though it was a bit too much for the style.