To stir or not to stir?

[mogger]

Hello.
I have recently knocked up a couple of Barons kits that I got on offer and about to bottle the third batch this weekend.
In the instructions it tells you to stir in the priming sugar but I always thought you should add the sugar to the bottling bucket then siphon the batch on top letting it mix itself.
The two batches I've got bottled now are both giving varying results of carbonation. Open one bottle and it's perfect, next one pretty much flat, no head and then the next one might explode everywhere. Leading me to think that the sugar has mixed unevenly. So do I stir then?
Just wondered what everyone else does.
I must say that even the flat ones were well drinkable and the ones that come out perfect were spot on. Really do recommend the Barons kits especially if you get them for a bargain.

Cheers!

:drink::drink::drink:

 

[1984]

Hi, I'm pretty new to this so may not have the most accurate advice, but the method I used does so far seem to have given consistent results. Instead of putting priming sugar into a bottling bucket siphoning on to that and then siphoning into bottles - put 0.5-1 tsp (I used 0.5 and carbonation was decent) of priming sugar into each (500ml) bottle. This way at least the same amount of sugar went into each bottle and result should be reasonably consistent. If you just put the sugar into a bottling bucket it may not mix thoroughly in time, this wouldn't be a problem when priming into a pressure barrel as the dissolved sugar has more time to diffuse throughout the beer!

Hope that is reasonably clear!!!

 

[BruinTuns]

mogger, you've hit on a very contentious subject - I know this because I'm currently reading all I can on it and opinions are very much divided it seems.
The idea behind 'batch priming' is that you disolve all the sugar first in a little hot water, pour it into your secondary fv (bucket) and then syphon the beer into it. This ensures thorough mixing (be careful not to aerate the beer).
Advocates of this method claim that one of it's big advantages (sorry 1984) is consistency because all the bottles will get an identical amount of priming sugar. Many also feel that doing this results in less sediment ending up in the bottles.
Those who disagree with 'racking to secondary' tend to be a little more vehement in their views, claiming that it has no advantages over bottle priming and that it can, in fact, result in more sediment ending up in the bottles because the act of syphoning stirs up the particles that hat had bee in the process of sinking down through the beer (in the primary fv) and which would have ended up on the bottom a day or two later along with the rest of it.
Secondary fv detractors also believe that this method adds an unnecessary risk of infection and oxygenation.
The following is a quote from experienced brewer and writer John Palmer:

""Therefore I, and Jamil and White Labs and Wyeast Labs, do not recommend racking to a secondary fermenter for ANY ale, except when conducting an actual second fermentation, such as adding fruit or souring. Racking to prevent autolysis is not necessary, and therefore the risk of oxidation is completely avoidable. Even lagers do not require racking to a second fermenter before lagering. With the right pitching rate, using fresh healthy yeast, and proper aeration of the wort prior to pitching, the fermentation of the beer will be complete within 3-8 days (bigger = longer). This time period includes the secondary or conditioning phase of fermentation when the yeast clean up acetaldehyde and diacetyl. The real purpose of lagering a beer is to use the colder temperatures to encourage the yeast to flocculate and promote the precipitation and sedimentation of microparticles and haze.
So, the new rule of thumb: don't rack a beer to a secondary, ever, unless you are going to conduct a secondary fermentation."

But there are equally authoritativesources that disagree, so I think this is just one of those areas where we have to find our own way.

 

[Covrich]

I always make up a dissolved solution put in 2nd FV (bottling bucket) and rack on to it..

I think of it like this

If you are to make a glass of say Orange squash, if you put in the squash first then fill it with water it will be mixed through.. the reverse is a bit tricker to mix it all in..

That is just my way of doing it and to be honest I have yet to have an issue. I pretty much yet a universal drink throughout.

 

[Godfather50]

Rack into secondary FV so you don't disturb the yeast. Either add the sugar or better still dextrose or if you want to be fancy these dissolved in a syrup, and stir!

 

[mogger]

Thanks for the replies people. I think I'm gonna stick with my method of racking into the bottling bucket on top of the sugar solution but with the addition of a gentle stir prior to bottling.
I must say though that the 2 previous Barons brews that I've done (with the mixed results) have come out lovely and clear with almost no sediment left in the bottle. So I hoping a gentle stir won't suddenly give me really cloudy results.

:drunk:

 

[emil]

I always make up a dissolved solution put in 2nd FV (bottling bucket) and rack on to it..

I think of it like this

If you are to make a glass of say Orange squash, if you put in the squash first then fill it with water it will be mixed through.. the reverse is a bit tricker to mix it all in..

That is just my way of doing it and to be honest I have yet to have an issue. I pretty much yet a universal drink throughout.

Me too!:drink:
:drink:

 

[kaferboy]

Thanks for the replies people. I think I'm gonna stick with my method of racking into the bottling bucket on top of the sugar solution but with the addition of a gentle stir prior to bottling.
I must say though that the 2 previous Barons brews that I've done (with the mixed results) have come out lovely and clear with almost no sediment left in the bottle. So I hoping a gentle stir won't suddenly give me really cloudy results.

:drunk:

I have in the past had exactly the issues you mention and have done exactly what you describe (rack onto dissolved sugar with a quick stir) for all my brews for the past two years with perfect results since. I hate adding sugar to the bottles, it's a total pain in the ass!

 

[clibit]

I dissolve dextrose in boiling water and rack beer onto it, then give gentle stir. I leave it while I sterilize bottles, then fill the bottles. Works for me.

 

[mogger]

Cheers.
That's what I wanted to hear really because that's what I'm gonna be doing.
I would have changed my mind if I'd have got a few responses like 'For god's sake don't stir up the brew' etc...
Thanks again beer lovers!!!



:drunk:

 

[DoctorMick]

mogger, you've hit on a very contentious subject - I know this because I'm currently reading all I can on it and opinions are very much divided it seems.
The idea behind 'batch priming' is that you disolve all the sugar first in a little hot water, pour it into your secondary fv (bucket) and then syphon the beer into it. This ensures thorough mixing (be careful not to aerate the beer).
Advocates of this method claim that one of it's big advantages (sorry 1984) is consistency because all the bottles will get an identical amount of priming sugar. Many also feel that doing this results in less sediment ending up in the bottles.
Those who disagree with 'racking to secondary' tend to be a little more vehement in their views, claiming that it has no advantages over bottle priming and that it can, in fact, result in more sediment ending up in the bottles because the act of syphoning stirs up the particles that hat had bee in the process of sinking down through the beer (in the primary fv) and which would have ended up on the bottom a day or two later along with the rest of it.
Secondary fv detractors also believe that this method adds an unnecessary risk of infection and oxygenation.
The following is a quote from experienced brewer and writer John Palmer:

""Therefore I, and Jamil and White Labs and Wyeast Labs, do not recommend racking to a secondary fermenter for ANY ale, except when conducting an actual second fermentation, such as adding fruit or souring. Racking to prevent autolysis is not necessary, and therefore the risk of oxidation is completely avoidable. Even lagers do not require racking to a second fermenter before lagering. With the right pitching rate, using fresh healthy yeast, and proper aeration of the wort prior to pitching, the fermentation of the beer will be complete within 3-8 days (bigger = longer). This time period includes the secondary or conditioning phase of fermentation when the yeast clean up acetaldehyde and diacetyl. The real purpose of lagering a beer is to use the colder temperatures to encourage the yeast to flocculate and promote the precipitation and sedimentation of microparticles and haze.
So, the new rule of thumb: don't rack a beer to a secondary, ever, unless you are going to conduct a secondary fermentation."

But there are equally authoritativesources that disagree, so I think this is just one of those areas where we have to find our own way.

Well that's confusing. In his book he talks about not leaving the beer on the yeast cake for too long and using a secondary as bulk conditioning is better than bottle. Maybe it's been updated since I read it tho.

Found it: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-3.html

 

[brewpirate]

Well that's confusing. In his book he talks about not leaving the beer on the yeast cake for too long and using a secondary as bulk conditioning is better than bottle. Maybe it's been updated since I read it tho.

Found it: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-3.html

That is the first version and I believe its been changed as of the recent versions. Secondary can increase the risk of exposure to oxygen and infection. The time it takes for yeast to autolysis is quite long so I only rack to secondary if I am dry hopping or long term aging.

 

[DoctorMick]

Right, thought I'd jump back in to this after a few surprises at the weekend! I've been batch priming but without stirring and from 4 batches done this way I hadn't noticed any problems...until the weekend! I had a flat stout, a fizzy wherry and an absolutely mental lager! It looks like just syphoning beneath the sugar isn't sufficient so I'm going to give it a gentle stir the next couple of batches and see if that gives a bit more consistency,