To prime or not to prime

[CD]

That is the question! This is what the late Graham Wheeler had to say on the subject:

Generally speaking, a properly formulated and properly brewed beer should not need priming. There should be sufficient residual sugars in the beer at the time of barrelling to provide secondary fermentation and condition.

Despite that, homebrew lore is that you should let beer finish fermenting, then start it going all over again by adding sugar to your bottles or PB, which is a safe if rather long-winded method.

I mentioned on the ‘C.D.’s Brewery’ thread about a rash purchase I made of two school kitchen boilers in 1984. This found me with a brewing capacity which far exceeded my capability, so in November that year I awarded myself an extra week’s holiday to attend a course at Ringwood Brewery in Hampshire.

There, I learnt from the owner, Peter Austin, that a typical fermentation was conducted at between 18C and 20C until its gravity had fallen to a quarter of its OG (around 2 days for their Best Bitter and 3 for Old Thumper), cooled to under 13C at which time the yeast was stripped off the top, rested for 4 days, then put into casks 6 to 7 days after brewing. Finings were added to each cask as they were being filled, and they were sent out to pubs a week later – although that could be reduced to just 2 days in an emergency!

Quite an eye-opener, and I haven’t used priming sugar, or any other type of yeast apart from that freshly collected from a Brewery, from that day to this.

The Founding Father of the Mini Brewery Revolution.

 

[kelper]

I think of priming as a way to NOT over carbonate. Once fermentation has stopped and you add a measured amount of sugar you are not going to get bottle bombs.

But, as I usually put mine in a PB, I will not prime my St Peter's IPA and see what happens. I'll advise if it's flat.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I find that I rarely hit the desired FG (I could be going wrong somewhere), so using this method for me would mean I have no control over carbonation. Some of my beers I want less carbonation, some more. For this reason, priming allows me a degree of control I could not have if relying on achieving a given FG.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I think the problem is the 2:2:2 rule which is not relevant for most beers. I give you an example from one of my brews
Waggledance
Brew 16/6/20
Transfer to 2FV 23/6/20 and cold crashed in fridge
Transferred to cornelius keg 24/6/20 and carbonated
First pint 28/6/20
Clear, carbonated and lovely.
Total 12 days.

 

[kelper]

I give you an example from one of my brews
Waggledance

What was the OG and FG before kegging? The 2:2:2 rule is very good for beginners.......................

 

[Cheshire Cat]

OG 1058
FG 1011
ABV 6.1%
For bottled beers I probably use
1 week primary
3 days secondary
2 weeks carbing
4-6 weeks to mature based on OG I.e. 1040 4 weeks 1050 5 weeks etc

 

[strange-steve]

If you're brewing the same thing over and over, and you know for sure what the FG will be then bottling/kegging early is a fine way to carbonate. The problem for homebrewers is that we probably have a lot more variation in what we brew, and even when we do repeat a recipe we have a lot less control over the variables than a commercial brewery, meaning there's more uncertainty with the FG.

 

[kelper]

I find that I rarely hit the desired FG

is this with kits? I've always got to 1.010 or very close.

 

[terrym]

I think the problem is the 2:2:2 rule which is not relevant for most beers. I give you an example from one of my brews
Waggledance
Brew 16/6/20
Transfer to 2FV 23/6/20 and cold crashed in fridge
Transferred to cornelius keg 24/6/20 and carbonated
First pint 28/6/20
Clear, carbonated and lovely.
Total 12 days.
View attachment 28412

I do tend to agree that the 2+2+2 guidance is not applicable to most beers but it is a good start point for new brewers to use before they get to properly understand what they are doing.
However in your example, whilst that obviously works well for you, many homebrewers don't have a brew fridge, and probably even fewer have corny kegs, and that certainly applies to me. So whereas I tend to leave most of my beers in the FV for about 10/12 days with the last two in the coolest place I have, and can get most beers to carb up in just under a week, nearly all the beers I brew seem to take at least a month conditioning before they are worth drinking. And that means coincidently that I am unlikely to be drinking a new brew much before six weeks from pitching, its just the timing of the 3 phases that's different compared to the 2+2+2 guidance

 

[AnimatedGIF]

is this with kits? I've always got to 1.010 or very close.

Yes, with kits. I tend to end up at somewhere between 1010 and 1014.

 

[kelper]

Yes, with kits. I tend to end up at somewhere between 1010 and 1014.

I use a Tilt and it shows me when the SG stops dropping. Sometimes it takes almost a week to drop the last two points. Are you being patient?

 

[An Ankoù]

Never been a great fan of Wheeler's and it's that very piece of advice, together with his rant against PETs that put me off the lad. The increasing woolliness of his recipes over successive editions has done little to improve my opinion. As some of his earlier publications were done in association with Roger Protz, his recipes should be exemplary. Someone on this forum said he had effectively picked up the baton from Dave Line, and this inspired me to read his earliest stuff with new eyes and, yes, he does have some good, sound advice to give- especially on bittering and hop utilisation calculations. As for not priming- absolutely if you're using casks or pressure barrels, but it's not good practice with bottles. I hardly ever primed my pressure barrels when I used to use them and my dry hops went in with the beer, but I always ferment out or nearly before bottling and then dose each bottle separately.
His recipes are still poor, though.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I use a Tilt and it shows me when the SG stops dropping. Sometimes it takes almost a week to drop the last two points. Are you being patient?

I'm definitely being patient that's one thing I pride myself on. Nothing is usually in my FV less than 3 weeks, and it usually ends up being 4-5 days between FG readings for me as life gets in the way. I am using one of the glass floating hyrdrometers

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Never been a great fan of Wheeler's and it's that very piece of advice, together with his rant against PETs that put me off the lad. The increasing woolliness of his recipes over successive editions has done little to improve my opinion. As some of his earlier publications were done in association with Roger Protz, his recipes should be exemplary. Someone on this forum said he had effectively picked up the baton from Dave Line, and this inspired me to read his earliest stuff with new eyes and, yes, he does have some good, sound advice to give- especially on bittering and hop utilisation calculations. As for not priming- absolutely if you're using casks or pressure barrels, but it's not good practice with bottles. I hardly ever primed my pressure barrels when I used to use them and my dry hops went in with the beer, but I always ferment out or nearly before bottling and then dose each bottle separately.
His recipes are still poor, though.

What gets me now about GW's recipes is the use of sugar in nearly all of them. I used to follow them and use sugar but never do now apart from Belgium beers and for priming.

 

[strange-steve]

What gets me now about GW's recipes is the use of sugar in nearly all of them. I used to follow them and use sugar but never do now apart from Belgium beers and for priming.

I don't have any of his recipe books but I suspect the sugar is probably there to lighten the body in English beers as a way of imitating the effect of brewers invert.

Edit to add: I think it's high time we got rid of the notion that all-malt beers are superior to malt+sugar beers.

 

[Galena]

Never been a great fan of Wheeler's and it's that very piece of advice, together with his rant against PETs that put me off the lad. The increasing woolliness of his recipes over successive editions has done little to improve my opinion. As some of his earlier publications were done in association with Roger Protz, his recipes should be exemplary. Someone on this forum said he had effectively picked up the baton from Dave Line, and this inspired me to read his earliest stuff with new eyes and, yes, he does have some good, sound advice to give- especially on bittering and hop utilisation calculations. As for not priming- absolutely if you're using casks or pressure barrels, but it's not good practice with bottles. I hardly ever primed my pressure barrels when I used to use them and my dry hops went in with the beer, but I always ferment out or nearly before bottling and then dose each bottle separately.
His recipes are still poor, though.

With regards bottling he does say "All beer destined for bottling should first be matured for a time in a cask......Bottling straight from the fermentation vessel is bad practice and should be avoided......... even the worst commercial breweries mature their bottled beers in a conditioning tank before bottling."

So on the strength of that for those of us who bottle from the FV the advice seems irrelevant.
Having recently bought this book onj advice, despite some negative reviews I am disappointed with it. There is no yeast or fermentation guidance at all. I understand that the recipes are "in likeness" of their namesakes and not exact replicas so advising on the yeast used by the commercial brewery concerned may not be possible, but one would think he used yeast himself in the creation of these recipes and I would like some basic guideline on a style of yeast at least.

One reviewer said " It's as if somebody who doesn't really know what they are doing has gone to Wheeler (or Wheeler and Protz) earlier works to produce something modern and glossy which doesn't really work. There's a lot of dismissal of factors as unimportant, or a matter of taste, which are them elaborated at length, eg. hop utilisation. Much important stuff is just glossed over eg. culturing yeast. Most disappointing of all is the recipes: Protz went to great length to consult with breweries over the formulation of their recipes and this is reflected in Wheeler's earlier editions. The new recipes are standardised on pale malt, crystal, chocolate and black malt, where black malt appears to be used just for colour adjustment- might as well use caramel. No mention of yeast type in the recipes, either. A great disappointment. Don't waste your money on this edition, try to find an earlier one. "

 

[Drunkula]

to add: I think it's high time we got rid of the notion that all-malt beers are superior to malt+sugar beers.

I know! That's what shook me about my Not-a-Kit-and-a-Kilo experiment. The sugar version of the beer we liked more than the all grain version. I felt like I'd done something wrong and there must be a mistake.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Just dug out Wheeler and Protz book from 1993 and it's got a better selection of recipes but a lot call for sugar or Maltose syrup whatever that is. Also interesting is Best Bitters at 3.8%.

 

[MickDundee]

Also interesting is Best Bitters at 3.8%.

BJCP has best bitter ABV range at 3.8%-4.6% so it does fall into the ABV for style, albeit the very bottom.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I've found another book by C J J Berry a 1983 edition but the original is from 1963. Again a lot of recipes with sugar but it does suggest which yeast.