To fine or not to fine, that is the question!

[oldjiver]

I have for many years always fined my beers with isinglass (fish bladders). Being a vegetarian I dislike doing this but close my mind as I drink commercial real ale that almost certainly contains the same. I started doing it with beer kits 35 odd years ago when it certainly made a big difference in the clearing time. I also use copper finings (irish moss), something I DIDNT do 35 years ago. Speaking to an experienced home brewer a while ago, he said he never used isinglass finings, as the copper finings were enough. With finings I am usually drinking good clear beer a fortnight after bottling.
Next brew I think I will take a gallon out before fining and compare. My method is to put the isinglass finings into the FV the day before racking into the bottles. THis precipitates the bulk of the yeast leaving just enough for conditioning. Has anyone done a dual test ?

 

[pittsy]

All i can say to that is even my wheat beers start clearing after 4 weeks and that's with no finnings at all , ( i roll the yeast back into the beer)

 

[robsan77]

I have found that finings are the only way to get crystal clear beer. Yes, without the beer does clear but until you've held it next to a fined beer, you'll see how much clearer it could be.
I wouldn't go back now. Especially if using a yeast like us-05.

 

[calumscott]

Have you tried polyclar? It's a manufactured product so no sardines were harmed in the making of it...

 

[calumscott]

...oh, and on the topic. You'll notice that commercial beer doesn't include isinglass, irish moss, or any other kind of fining in the ingredients.

So don't they use them?

Well of course they do, but as they are only "used in manufacture" and don't remain in the final packaged product, they don't have to be declared. If it's not in the bottle, it doesn't go on the label. :thumb:

 

[Ceejay]

I don't use auxilliary finings. I don't really care if my beer isn't absolutely crystal clear. If it passed a "feck test" that's good enough for me. Moor Brewery also do not use auxiliary finings.

http://moorbeer.co.uk/why-is-it-better/ :thumb:

 

[oldjiver]

...oh, and on the topic. You'll notice that commercial beer doesn't include isinglass, irish moss, or any other kind of fining in the ingredients.

So don't they use them?

Well of course they do, but as they are only "used in manufacture" and don't remain in the final packaged product, they don't have to be declared. If it's not in the bottle, it doesn't go on the label. :thumb:

Yes the German "Reinheitsbebot" consider them to be an "in and out" ingredient so not counting for the purity law.

 

[oldjiver]

Have you tried polyclar? It's a manufactured product so no sardines were harmed in the making of it...

The idea of putting ground up plastic in my beer revolts me more than dead fish. It cant be very good for you. IT must hang around in your body.
Reminds me of a true story of the Union branch secretary visiting a man who was dying of asbestosis. After a chat the secretary asked the man if there was anything he could do for him. Yes, said the man, can you make sure they dont cremate me. Why? asked the secretary. Well said the man, with all this bloody asbestos in me I probably wont burn!!

 

[oldjiver]

I have tried Bentonite by the way, and found it cleared the beer but left a sediment that stirred up very easily, causing the bottom inch of the beer to be wasted.

 

[calumscott]

Have you tried polyclar? It's a manufactured product so no sardines were harmed in the making of it...

The idea of putting ground up plastic in my beer revolts me more than dead fish. It cant be very good for you. IT must hang around in your body.
Reminds me of a true story of the Union branch secretary visiting a man who was dying of asbestosis. After a chat the secretary asked the man if there was anything he could do for him. Yes, said the man, can you make sure they dont cremate me. Why? asked the secretary. Well said the man, with all this bloody asbestos in me I probably wont burn!!

Do you take aspirin, paracetamol or ibuprofen? It's the stuff that is in tablets to make them swell, break up and disperse when they hit your stomach...

...but quite apart from that, the whole point of finings of any sort is that they AREN'T in your beer! They are designed to come out of your beer along with the particulates...

 

[oldjiver]

I don't use auxilliary finings. I don't really care if my beer isn't absolutely crystal clear. If it passed a "feck test" that's good enough for me. Moor Brewery also do not use auxiliary finings.

http://moorbeer.co.uk/why-is-it-better/ :thumb:

Read your link to Moores Brewery. Quite surprised that they promote "cloudy" beer.?? I thought the idea of "unfined" was to be naturally clear. Whenever I have drunk a bottle of my beer before it cleared I have found it to be inferior in taste to the finished article.

 

[oldjiver]

Have you tried polyclar? It's a manufactured product so no sardines were harmed in the making of it...

The idea of putting ground up plastic in my beer revolts me more than dead fish. It cant be very good for you. IT must hang around in your body.
Reminds me of a true story of the Union branch secretary visiting a man who was dying of asbestosis. After a chat the secretary asked the man if there was anything he could do for him. Yes, said the man, can you make sure they dont cremate me. Why? asked the secretary. Well said the man, with all this bloody asbestos in me I probably wont burn!!

Do you take aspirin, paracetamol or ibuprofen? It's the stuff that is in tablets to make them swell, break up and disperse when they hit your stomach...

...but quite apart from that, the whole point of finings of any sort is that they AREN'T in your beer! They are designed to come out of your beer along with the particulates...

Oh No!! I will never take a pain killer again Seriously though, I never knew that. I am glad I opened this discussion as it seems we all have to make compromises to get what we want.

 

[calumscott]

Do you take aspirin, paracetamol or ibuprofen? It's the stuff that is in tablets to make them swell, break up and disperse when they hit your stomach...

Oh No!! I will never take a pain killer again Seriously though, I never knew that. I am glad I opened this discussion as it seems we all have to make compromises to get what we want.

:lol: True dat. And it's why this is the only forum that I've stuck with for any real length of time - the knowledge, experience and willingness to share and research and learn here is just brilliant.

So back to the OP: The options for auxiliary finings appear to be limited to fish, plastic, clay or gravity and time... Brewing is weird...

 

[graysalchemy]

I tend not to fine my beer unless I am having problem with it. I use protofloc in the kettle, allow the beer to ferment out rack to a secondary after the diacetyl rest, then leave it on a cold concrete floor for about a week . After that on bottling day it is racked to another fv for batch priming and bottling. My beer is always crystal clear.

Occasionally if I am pushed for time and need to bottle early I add some gelatin dissolved in a little water at 85c, throw it in and let it rest for 2-3 days on the cold concrete floor.

It is the cold concret floor that acts as a heat sink chilling the beer and getting any suspended particles to drop to the bottom.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

[oldjiver]

I tend not to fine my beer unless I am having problem with it. I use protofloc in the kettle, allow the beer to ferment out rack to a secondary after the diacetyl rest, then leave it on a cold concrete floor for about a week . After that on bottling day it is racked to another fv for batch priming and bottling. My beer is always crystal clear.

Occasionally if I am pushed for time and need to bottle early I add some gelatin dissolved in a little water at 85c, throw it in and let it rest for 2-3 days on the cold concrete floor.

It is the cold concret floor that acts as a heat sink chilling the beer and getting any suspended particles to drop to the bottom.

:thumb: :thumb:

Do you add any fresh yeast at bottling time? or is there still enough in suspension after two rackings.

 

[graysalchemy]

Plenty still available after a weeks clearing, however a barley wine which I left for 6 weeks had zero in it and even adding a fresh bit of yeast didn't carb the bottles so I need to open all 150 of them reseed and carb again. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[oldjiver]

Plenty still available after a weeks clearing, however a barley wine which I left for 6 weeks had zero in it and even adding a fresh bit of yeast didn't carb the bottles so I need to open all 150 of them reseed and carb again. :thumb: :thumb:

Long time since I read Dave Line, but I seem to remember he advocated complete clearing and reseeding with fresh yeast. I would imagine barley wine would be a bit of a shock to fresh yeast! You are a very patient man re-doing 150 bottles. I once did a batch that I completely forgot to prime. It wasnt a particularly good brew so I just mixed it with 50/50 with french cheap lager I had hanging around.

 

[robsan77]

Plenty still available after a weeks clearing, however a barley wine which I left for 6 weeks had zero in it and even adding a fresh bit of yeast didn't carb the bottles so I need to open all 150 of them reseed and carb again. :thumb: :thumb:

Long time since I read Dave Line, but I seem to remember he advocated complete clearing and reseeding with fresh yeast. I would imagine barley wine would be a bit of a shock to fresh yeast! You are a very patient man re-doing 150 bottles. I once did a batch that I completely forgot to prime. It wasnt a particularly good brew so I just mixed it with 50/50 with french cheap lager I had hanging around.

Fresh yeast would be better than the original in a barley wine as the old yeast will have had enough with the alc. New yeast is healthier and will do a better job.

 

[graysalchemy]

I would agree with you. Mind you I had a 9% heavy which primed no bother the only difference apart from the yeast variety was the fact that the barley wine had stood around for 6 weeks. :thumb: