To bottle or not to bottle??

[chrissyteacup]

Hi all
Made bramble wine in September (my first attempt at wine making) and it has now had 2 racking's and I think its clear I can see light shining through when holding towards a light source. there is about 0.5-1 cm of sediment in the bottom of the demijohn.

Should I rack it again or should I just bottle it?? (last sg was 0.995) how do I know if it is completely clear? and also was wondering about campden tablets should I use them on every racking and upon bottling?

Thanks I know there probably really stupid questions but I don't want to ruin my wine.

 

[Boatbrewer]

Might be an idea to rack it again. My hedgerow wines are left to mature in bulk until next summer. Then bottled and left for at least another six months so I would say there is no rush to get it bottled.

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

How recently did you last rack it? Wait until three months after the last racking, then rack onto a crushed campden tablet (to reduce oxidation) and seal with a bung. Leave for three months and check to see if there's any more sediment, in which case rack onto a campden tablet again. If there isn't any sediment, leave until the summer then bottle.

The important thing is not to leave the wine on the sediment too long as it can produce some unwanted flavours as the surviving yeast begin to cannibalise their dead siblings.

You can leave the wine in the DJ for longer if you want - maturing in bulk is better, and wine only needs to be in the bottle about a month before you intend to drink it. I only yesterday bottled the blackcurrant wine my family will be drinking at Christmas.

 

[oldbloke]

What the others said is better, but personally I'd rack it onto sorbate+sulphite to stabilise, give it a day or two for that to disperse throughout the wine properly, then bottle.

 

[chrissyteacup]

Thanks was last racked 22/10 so a month ago today so ill leave it another couple of months but will need to bottle before I can start anything else as all my demijohns are full!! its just so exciting that I've actually made wine :party: I know I need to be patient.

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

If you need more DJs, 5L plastic water bottles are great. They're about £1, and come with free water in (a bit like how you pay £1.50 to £2 for a beer bottle that comes with free beer inside) which is ideal for making wine with. I use them in preference over glass for the first few months, as they have more head-space if your wine gets a little enthusiastic (just remember to leave about a pint of air space at the top) and they're lighter and take up less space than glass DJs. They're not ideal for long-term storage since they're PET, but that's what glass is best at.

To fit a bubble lock, drill through the caps using a 9mm wood drill bit, and push the base of the bubble lock through the hole. 9mm is slightly smaller than the pipe of a bubble lock, so the plastic will deform slightly as the bubble lock is pushed into place, creating a good snug fit. You can fix it with something like superglue or hotglue if you want. I normally use my bottles for three or four batches before throwing them away, so over time you'll build up a collection of spare caps.

 

[OnlyFerment]

If you need more DJs, 5L plastic water bottles are great. They're about £1, and come with free water in (a bit like how you pay £1.50 to £2 for a beer bottle that comes with free beer inside) which is ideal for making wine with. I spare caps.

I noticed Asda do a 15L plastic water bottle - bit pricey compared to the 5L bottles though at something like £5.50. Good idea though as I am out of DJs too.

Dave

 

[chrissyteacup]

Thanks for the tips but I think the other half wouldn't be impressed if I filled his man cave (AKA the garage) with any more wine I've already got 8 demijohns... and he thinks I'm obsessed... maybe he's right I hope he'll come round to more when its all drinkable!! :pray:

 

[tonyhibbett]

Blackberry loses it's colour if stored in clear containers, so cover them and use dark bottles. The same applies to beetroot. The flavour is not affected by loss of colour.

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

Thanks for the tips but I think the other half wouldn't be impressed if I filled his man cave (AKA the garage) with any more wine I've already got 8 demijohns... and he thinks I'm obsessed... maybe he's right I hope he'll come round to more when its all drinkable!! :pray:

Kit beers don't need demijohns, just a big bucket and a hell of a lot of beer bottles and crown caps. Make a batch up now and his attitude to your new hobby may well have changed by the end of January, especially when he realises that kit beers work out at around 40p to 60p per pint. You can even get gluten-free versions of lighter beers.

Also, you only have eight DJs? How restrained of you!

 

[kentmark]

Thanks for the tips but I think the other half wouldn't be impressed if I filled his man cave (AKA the garage) with any more wine I've already got 8 demijohns... and he thinks I'm obsessed... maybe he's right I hope he'll come round to more when its all drinkable!! :pray:

Not a mancave if there's not a load of alcohol in there LOL. When designing the layout of my new mancave before we moved recently I included my brewing cabinet, shelf space and a solid workbench.

 

[chrissyteacup]

Hmmm making beer that would cheer him up how long wold that take? Could I use the bucket I use for my primary in wine? How do kits compare to bought? he's pretty picky and I remember years ago my brother doing kit beers and not been that impressed it was when he was only just legally able to drink (at least I think he was....) so no idea of the quality of the kit in question or the care put into it.

I know I think 8 Demijohns is pretty reserved but when he tries to get the car in the garage for a good polish and wax I'm not convince he will lol!

How long can wine be left on the lees before you'd expect it to start to have an off flavour? Will the wine not mature in the bottles? Or is it just better/quicker in bulk? I have designs on elderflower dandelion and attempting some wows!! :drunk:

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

Hmmm making beer that would cheer him up how long wold that take? Could I use the bucket I use for my primary in wine?

As long as the bucket is big enough (25L or bigger) it will be fine for making beer. It will take about six weeks to two months start to finish - a week for the initial fermenting time, then five to eight weeks conditioning in the bottles. Some kits will say shorter, but it really is worth being patient. The first time I made kit beer, I opened my first one about three weeks after bottling and it tasted vile. A few weeks later I tried another bottle and it was nice. A few months later and it was delicious.

How do kits compare to bought? he's pretty picky and I remember years ago my brother doing kit beers and not been that impressed it was when he was only just legally able to drink (at least I think he was....) so no idea of the quality of the kit in question or the care put into it.

It depends on a variety of factors, including the quality of the kit you use; in one-can kits, whether you use table sugar, dextrose, beer enhancer or spraymalt (spraymalt is best) as the additional fermentables; whether or not you use additional ingredients to create a "speciality beer"; etc. - all of which you can control.

Unfortunately the most important factor of all is out of your hands: what type of beer he likes to drink. If his idea of a "great brew" is Stella, Carling or (hack-spit) Fosters, he's a lost cause and you're better off buying some extra demijohns. It's not that they're better beers, of course, but because any heathen who thinks they're worth drinking doesn't have the tastebuds to appreciate even the cheapest, nastiest kit beer. If he prefers a bottle of Speckled Hen of an evening, you're in with a chance. Since he's picky, find out what he likes the most and ask in your local home-brew shop for a kit that's similar.

How long can wine be left on the lees before you'd expect it to start to have an off flavour? Will the wine not mature in the bottles? Or is it just better/quicker in bulk? I have designs on elderflower dandelion and attempting some wows!! :drunk:

Others more experienced than me (and there are plenty on here) have said three months, and I've never risked leaving a wine any longer so I can't comment on what the effect on flavour might be. Wines do mature in the bottle, but they do so better in bulk. Also, six bottles take up a lot more space than one demijohn, so maturing in bulk can also save space.

 

[chrissyteacup]

Ill have to have a think about that one he does enjoy the odd hobgoblin and he's enjoyed a few of the real ales that marks and Spencer's offer (can't remember which as they were a stocking filler from his mum at Xmas) but he more regularly drink lager like Peroni Stella and others.

Back to the original topic of wine clearing my elderberry (made about 2 weeks after the bramble) doesn't seem to let any light through at all but is this due to the darker colour? And if so how will I know if its cleared?? I'm not in a massive rush to bottle since the garage isn't heated so won't be starting anything new for a while as it'll be too chilly and I guess bottles will be more likely to freeze. (Demi's are currently wrapped in corrugated cardboard!)

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

If he likes hobgoblin, go to your local home brew shop and ask them for a kit that will produce something similar.

Re. the elderberry, you shouldn't see even the slightest hint of light coming through with a wine that dark, irrespective of whether it's clear or not. To be sure it's clear you can either use finings (if you need to bottle quickly) or rack every third month until it no longer throws a sediment (if you want to bulk-mature).

 

[Padster]

Hi Chrissy - I was about to post a very similar query so glad I read this first! Have racked my first ever wine (also blackberry) once and it's cleared a lot since then but not totally clear yet. First racking was 8th November - tasted pretty good at that point! Was thinking of racking again but having read this it sounds like I should wait a bit longer. Sounds like mine is at the same stage as yours and I am just being an impatient newbie too!!

Have got an apple and raspberry WOW on the go - dead easy and great fun to watch as the fermentation is pretty lively! So I would say go for it with a WOW or two! I'm going to start some more off once I buy a few of the 5L water bottles!

I'm glad there's another excited and impatient newbie out there like me!! :grin:

 

[chrissyteacup]

Nope your definitely not alone padster. I'm planning on doing some wow's once I've a spare demijohn. The hegrow fruit was too abundant (and my favourite price) for me to pass up on so all my Demi's are full, kinda wish I'd done one before getting my wines on the go so I had something to drink sooner but nevermind with bramble sloe and elderberry next christmas's wine is sorted.... As long as it turns out ok :

when did you start your wow? When'll it be ready? It's all exciting stuff!

That's good to know Tim! Will leave it in the demijohn as long as possible then. Would you be able to tell in a glass that it was clear then or not? I know it's not something I need to worry about just yet I'm just curious.

 

[oldbloke]

Even with a wine as dark as elderberry there's a definite change in its opacity, or albedo, or transparency, or something. When they're clear they kind of glow, if not through then by reflection. It's unmistakable once you've done a few.
My current elderberry is just about at that stage now but still managing the odd bubble so I'm letting it run a bit longer even though when I racked it last week it tasted good enough to bottle.

 

[Padster]

Hi Chrissy - I started my WOW on 18th November, a week ago, so I've got few weeks to wait yet! I followed the recipe on here. Should have started a bit earlier so it would be ready for Christmas - I think it will be ready early January. Can't wait!!! :party:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Padster if you let it finish fermenting then give it seven days for the yeast to clear up after itself you will have plenty of time to get it ready to drink at Christmas, clear it using something like KwiK clear or vinclear as it will take months to do it naturally.