Thoughts on Progress

[el gringo]

Hi All

Just after a bit of advice, i've done 4 kit brews now since last September ish and none of them have been a raging success - not by any means a failure but none seems to have hit the nail squarely on the head.

1st off was a Wherry done with Ashbeck spring water - followed the instructions to the letter (before finding some excellent info on here) and while the 1st ferment went smoothly when it went into secondary to condition my keg split along the seam. It can as a kit from "the place that shall not be named" and they weren't interested in helping. I ended up salvaging what i could into 2 litre pop bottles and left it and hoped for the best - end result, it actually tasted pretty damn good as you would expect from a Wherry but i can't help but think it would have been better if it had gone according to plan.

2nd was a Coopers Cerveza done with filtered water from the tap and beer kit enhancer - after aquirring another pressure keg again 1st ferment went well and was left 12 days, kegged with the coopers recommended sugar weight of 170odd grams which didn't seem right but i followed the instructions, all was going well until i realised there was no pressure building and found the top seal was pinched, i used a CO2 bulb but it didn't really carb the beer and whilst i could get it out of the keg it was pretty flat and would'nt clear, tasted reasonable though. I now realise that kegs aren't the best for carbing a Lager type brew.

3rd was a Milestone Black Pearl again done with filtered tap water - this one seemed to takes ages to ferment and had a full 15 days in the FV, kegged with the recommended ammount of caster sugar and carbed well but just didn't taste right, had a bit of a tang to it. Ended up scrapping the last 6-7 pints.

and finally i did a Woodfordes Sundew - theory being the Wherry had come out the best so far and all the reviews pointed to Woodfordes kits being the way to go. Once again 12 days full 1st ferment went well, kegged with 85g caster sugar. Pressurised well and still has it's own natural pressure now at 7 weeks ish. It has cleared beautifully and has a lovely head that lasts almost to the bottom of the glass but it's no where near as "fizzy" as i feel it should be, doesn't have that crisp bite that it looks like it should have and there are very few bubbles rising in the actual beer itself when looking in the glass. Also it has a tang that others on here seem to have experienced - i guess i'm just a bit disspointed that whilst this one seems to have gone perfectly to plan the end result is a bit of a let down.

So really i suppose my question is, is there anything i can do to make the next one a great brew?

I was thinking a Coopers IPA with 500g light spray malt and 500g of hopped light spray malt

Any thoughts greatly apprieciated

Cheers

Chris

 

[johnnyboy1965]

KIts are kits are kits...if done properly they do everything that it asys on the can...That is why they come in a can. You can add other things to the kit, that might improve it (for your taste) but you wont get a "great beer". Youll get a very good beer, but not great. I have never drank a great beer, Ive drunk loads of very good beers, but not one that Id class as great.
Its all down to your perception of a "great beer"

 

[calumscott]

I can think of a few things straight off.

1) Bottle your beer. You'll get a better controlled carb and condition and you can keep it longer. You can also get more fizz in a bottle if you like them fizzy.
2) Ditch the "enhancers". Use only spraymalt or liquid malt extract as the extra fermentibles. Spray malt @ 1:1 or a little more, Liquid @ 1.5:1 or a little more.
2a) Ditch the caster sugar. Use dextrose to prime instead. There will be another post on this topic coming soon...
3) Take more time in FV. You say 15 days was a long time. Two weeks is my minimum in FV.
4) Black Pearl is a stout. Beers with high ABV's and particularly dark brews like stouts and porters will take a longer time to condition.
5) Modify your kits. The kit production process isn't the kindest to the malt and hops. Kits benefit massively from tinkering. Read up on what hops go with what styles, find out which varieties are used in your favourite beers and buy some. (The Malt Miller is highly recommended). You can either boil them up in the water that you'll make your kit with or use them to dry-hop later in the fermentation. My absolute favourite so far is Better Brew IPA, 1.5kg Liquid Malt Extract and a 40g/two week dry hop with Chinook. Yum!

It seems to me that you are getting results, so it's not that you're doing anything wrong. It's just time to take the next step in upping your quality! :thumb:

 

[ScottM]

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23735

That seems to get rave reviews. For off flavours just make sure everything is sanitised and rinsed properly. You will get off flavours if there is any sanitiser residue left behind (if it's a rinse sanitiser that is).

 

[calumscott]

KIts are kits are kits...if done properly they do everything that it asys on the can...That is why they come in a can. You can add other things to the kit, that might improve it (for your taste) but you wont get a "great beer". Youll get a very good beer, but not great. I have never drank a great beer, Ive drunk loads of very good beers, but not one that Id class as great.
Its all down to your perception of a "great beer"

I disagree that 'you wont get a "great beer"'.

I'm brewing kits with subtle mods (usually just the quality of extra fermentibles and the addition of dry hops) that, frankly, are way better than most commercial bottled beers.

Start with a quality kit (the two can jobs from muntons and woodfordes and the Better Brew pouches and the single can kits from Brewferm for example), then only add other quality ingredients, control your fermentation temperature and great beer will happen.

As you say though, it's the definition of great beer that's key. For me, if I can produce better than I can buy, clearly that's great. I might be able (in fact, I really hope I can do better!!!) when I go AG in the near future but for me, that's just another level of great! :thumb:

 

[wilsoa1111]

Well i got to your stage before this summer, deciding (possibley incorrectly) that that tang u mentioned is due to a kit thing, maybe not the tin but from the method used to hop them, dont really know or care. i did however skip the whole pressure keg affair from hearing about others and am terrified of losing all the precious beer in one go and have a dark garage for my pop bottles.

Anyway only way i saw was to go Allgrain (partly cos im too cheap to buy plain extract for the same price as a kit to see if its the hops), bit of a escalation but i had a summer free and garage full of dads tools. as a result i had the first pint of my schnells london stout (reduced to 4.3% using 35g fuggles at first wort) only a wk old and it far surpasses the black pearl i brewed (i rather liked its tang which i thought might be citrus hops at the time :wha: guess its personal preference) using same single ferment method in same equipment, in maltiness and hopiness. So if u feel its worth the £50-70 and time effort go for it! (very cheapest pos btw buy the wort chiller off ebay coiling copper is a ****)

if your interested im sure im not the person to ask -but having done it recently i can say its worth it for me and after a few brews i'll have broke even,- but the forum is full of good advice and coolboxes r cheap this summer :)

 

[johnnyboy1965]

KIts are kits are kits...if done properly they do everything that it asys on the can...That is why they come in a can. You can add other things to the kit, that might improve it (for your taste) but you wont get a "great beer". Youll get a very good beer, but not great. I have never drank a great beer, Ive drunk loads of very good beers, but not one that Id class as great.
Its all down to your perception of a "great beer"

I disagree that 'you wont get a "great beer"'.

I'm brewing kits with subtle mods (usually just the quality of extra fermentibles and the addition of dry hops) that, frankly, are way better than most commercial bottled beers.

Start with a quality kit (the two can jobs from muntons and woodfordes and the Better Brew pouches and the single can kits from Brewferm for example), then only add other quality ingredients, control your fermentation temperature and great beer will happen.

I agree with everting that you disagree with. Great beer...no such thing....different people differnet tastes. Good beer ...Thats nice Id drink that.
The thing with beer is, every brew is down to the drinkers opinion, you can please some of the people, all of the time etc etc etc
As you say though, it's the definition of great beer that's key. For me, if I can produce better than I can buy, clearly that's great. I might be able (in fact, I really hope I can do better!!!) when I go AG in the near future but for me, that's just another level of great! :thumb:

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Sorry wrong brackets

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Well i got to your stage before this summer, deciding (possibley incorrectly) that that tang u mentioned is due to a kit thing, maybe not the tin but from the method used to hop them, dont really know or care. i did however skip the whole pressure keg affair from hearing about others and am terrified of losing all the precious beer in one go and have a dark garage for my pop bottles.

Anyway only way i saw was to go Allgrain (partly cos im too cheap to buy plain extract for the same price as a kit to see if its the hops), bit of a escalation but i had a summer free and garage full of dads tools. as a result i had the first pint of my schnells london stout (reduced to 4.3% using 35g fuggles at first wort) only a wk old and it far surpasses the black pearl i brewed (i rather liked its tang which i thought might be citrus hops at the time :wha: guess its personal preference) using same single ferment method in same equipment, in maltiness and hopiness. So if u feel its worth the £50-70 and time effort go for it! (very cheapest pos btw buy the wort chiller off ebay coiling copper is a ****)

if your interested im sure im not the person to ask -but having done it recently i can say its worth it for me and after a few brews i'll have broke even,- but the forum is full of good advice and coolboxes r cheap this summer :)

Quick read only....you will not get any "twang" taste because it comes out of a tin

 

[RobWalker]

You get the tang with malt extract and kits alike. To really reduce it you need temp controlled all grain brewing...and patience too. Commercial beers have ruined our pallette tbh, its better to grow accustomed to beer that can have flaws but still enjoy it in my humble opinion...

Calumscott has hit the nail on the head really, although personally I chuck a brew enhancer in when I do a 1 can kit because I don't want to affect the bitterness too much!