Thoughts on an attempted Spitfire clone...

[Granarian]

Fermentables:
3.3KG UK 2-Row Pale
450g Flaked Maize
340g Crystal Malt 55L
113g Torrified Wheat

21g Target (9% AA) 90 mins
227g Corn Sugar 90 mins
14g EK Goldings 15 mins
14g First Gold 15 mins
5g Irish Moss 15 mins
14g EK Holdings 1 min

Yeast 1275 Thames Valley Ale Yeast

Targeting:
18.9L length
OG 1.047
FG 1.010
IBU 39
SRM 12
ABV 4.7%

 

[Braufather]

Just bumping this thread from way back if I may, and hopefully get some feedback. If you google spitfire on this site There are plenty of positive posts in the what are you drinking tonight thread about so plenty of experience here

From the above recipe I’d leave out the flaked maize and maybe add a bit of amber malt. I’d be tempted to go for a slightly darker crystal malt. Maybe 80 L

hops look good but SN also include challanger.

for yeast I was thinking Irish ale yeast or 007.

so anyone tried to brew it?
for regular drinkers, what do you think the key ingredients are?

 

[Sandimas]

I'd drop the amount of Target / IBU, Target can be quite a harsh bittering hop and only suits certain beers, it's quite distinctive. I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with it and use it with caution. I don't remember Spitfire being that harsh so I'd go for 30-35 IBU.

There's a few clone recipes out there including this one
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/415033/shepherd-neame-spitfire-clone

 

[Braufather]

I'd drop the amount of Target / IBU, Target can be quite a harsh bittering hop and only suits certain beers, it's quite distinctive. I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with it and use it with caution. I don't remember Spitfire being that harsh so I'd go for 30-35 IBU.

There's a few clone recipes out there including this one
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/415033/shepherd-neame-spitfire-clone

the grain bill looks about right, but I would want it that strong so would adjust accordingly. I’m looking to get some first gold in there too.

 

[foxy]

Just bumping this thread from way back if I may, and hopefully get some feedback. If you google spitfire on this site There are plenty of positive posts in the what are you drinking tonight thread about so plenty of experience here

From the above recipe I’d leave out the flaked maize and maybe add a bit of amber malt. I’d be tempted to go for a slightly darker crystal malt. Maybe 80 L

hops look good but SN also include challanger.

for yeast I was thinking Irish ale yeast or 007.

so anyone tried to brew it?
for regular drinkers, what do you think the key ingredients are?

Working out the IBU using SMPH or Tinseth the IBU comes in at 21.9 and 23 .8 respectively AA's for EKG default 5%, First Gold default 6% that is on a Guten/Brew Devil etc so far to low for the style.

 

[Braufather]

Working out the IBU using SMPH or Tinseth the IBU comes in at 21.9 and 23 .8

Yes, I’ll,need to play around with that. I’ll be Aiming for between 35 and 40

amyone any ideas on yeast. Liquid I’m thinking Irish ale yeast ( read that somewhere ) or 007. Dry yeast thinking maybe trying verdant IPA but that might leave it a bit sweet. Tend to go liquid with English yeasts

 

[Northern_Brewer]

amyone any ideas on yeast. Liquid I’m thinking Irish ale yeast ( read that somewhere ) or 007. Dry yeast thinking maybe trying verdant IPA but that might leave it a bit sweet. Tend to go liquid with English yeasts

Well, one would assume that the Brewlab "Kent" is probably Sheps - normally available from both Brewlab and Malt Miller but there's obviously been a problem with the latest batch.

Probably the easiest would be to harvest it from a bottle of 1698, which people seem to think probably contains the production strain although I've not tried it myself. 1698 would be the cheapest option!

However a comment on Paul Bailey's blog from someone claiming to be their former Brewery Chemist says that just after they left, an ex-Whitbread director came in and replaced the original two-strain with "Whitbread yeast" which corresponded with a noticeable decline in the beer. Now that doesn't really match the description of the Brewlab Kent yeast, but who knows.

But if they are still using a Whitbread strain, then that would point to 007.

I've not used Verdant in a trad British beer myself, but there seems to be a feeling that it's a "bit much" on its own, it's better diluted in a blend with something blander like Notty/Munton Gold/Wilko or US-05 or 34/70 or something. Or the classic Windsor/Notty combo.

 

[Braufather]

Well, one would assume that the Brewlab "Kent" is probably Sheps - normally available from both Brewlab and Malt Miller but there's obviously been a problem with the latest batch.

Probably the easiest would be to harvest it from a bottle of 1698, which people seem to think probably contains the production strain although I've not tried it myself. 1698 would be the cheapest option!

However a comment on Paul Bailey's blog from someone claiming to be their former Brewery Chemist says that just after they left, an ex-Whitbread director came in and replaced the original two-strain with "Whitbread yeast" which corresponded with a noticeable decline in the beer. Now that doesn't really match the description of the Brewlab Kent yeast, but who knows.

But if they are still using a Whitbread strain, then that would point to 007.

I've not used Verdant in a trad British beer myself, but there seems to be a feeling that it's a "bit much" on its own, it's better diluted in a blend with something blander like Notty/Munton Gold/Wilko or US-05 or 34/70 or something. Or the classic Windsor/Notty combo.

Thanks, some great info there. Do you know when the possible switch to Whitbread May have happened?

 

[patto1ro]

When did Shepherd Neame start using flaked maize? They didn't use to, in an age when almost everyone else did. Admittedly, 1956 is the most recent brewing book I've seen.

 

[Braufather]

haha, that’s proberly worth a few Bob now!
re flaked maize, Not sure they do, hence my suggestion to leave it out and also maybe add some amber.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thanks, some great info there. Do you know when the possible switch to Whitbread May have happened?

All I've got is what's on Paul Bailey's blog, but commenter "Richard" seems to be implying it's in the context of Paul's "Sometime between the late 1980's and early 1990's, Shepherd Neame beers underwent a dramatic change in both taste and character."

One common reason for changing to a single strain yeast is moving to conical fermenters, which a lot of breweries did in the late 1970s and 1980s, so that could be part of it.

 

[Braufather]

i only started drinking it in the 90s so should be ok with 007. i thoght its rep improved as in the eightees they used to call them shepherd scream,

 

[tutshiveandspile]

I recall Spitfire was originally a pale coloured bottle conditioned beer at about 5%abv.The present product bears no resemblance. Has anyone got a recipe for
Spitfire original. It was in the late 90s my local spoons had it. I think it was 99p.
And was quickly sold out. Perhaps they bought up the remaining stock

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It was 5.0% originally - it was intended to be sold in cans in NAAFIs but they put some in cask as an afterthought.

 

[tutshiveandspile]

Thanks Northern Brewer. The bottle on the right looks the original colour.
And the Bottle of Britain label. Part of the advertising campaign used at the time.