Things to ponder with concern regarding the future

[Argentum]

A few concerns of mine:

1) ERoEI (energy returned on energy invested). When more energy in one form is expended whereby to yield less energy in either the same or another form things get interesting. For but one example, if it takes more refined gasoline consumption whereby to extract crude oil from the ground than can then be converted into gasoline via processing and refining the extracted crude oil, then does it become game over for using gasoline power to extract crude oil?

2) What I will refer to as RRoEI (resources returned on energy invested). An individual example: Rare earth metals are required for (among other things) solar power and electric vehicles. When the energy expended whereby to mine, process, refine, and market the rare earth minerals exceeds the value that lies within the rare earth metals, does that mean the pursuit of rare earth minerals has hit game over?

3) The potential that we will eventually reach "Peak Everything".

4) High Grading. High grading is the human nature driven tendency/desire to tap/mine/exploit the richest resource discovery zones first, whereby to deplete the very best among them first, making all future resource mining more costly and less fruitful, and also much more energy intensive.

5) When extracting oil from the ground requires fracturing the very earth itself, as opposed to simply sinking a shaft, this seems to indicate that all of the earths simple to reach oil has already been high graded, leaving only the most hard to get at dregs that require such drastic measures.

6) Will throwing ever more amounts of money fabricated out of thin air always solve problems such as the scant few I've listed above?

7) A joking way to look at all of this: A woman is trying to hang a picture by driving a nail into the wall, but hasn't got the right tools. Her dad, who has been watching, quickly sketches a picture of a hammer on a piece of paper and hands it to his daughter. The daughter wails: "Dad, that only works for money!". (note: joke stolen, not original to me)

 

[Clint]

I'm wondering if it's going to rain on my curry making activities later...

 

[Argentum]

Here's one to ponder. If the average human aspires to live to the age of 85, and our central banks are targeting what they inform us to be a very mild and controllable "ideal" annual inflation rate of a mere 2%, then in one average/desired human lifetime the average cost of goods will rise by 538.3%

1.02^85 = 5.382878779

Currency devaluation via inflation is what this really amounts too. It is also an 81.42% tax on stagnant savings over the span of one desired lifetime. And it's "baked" into the fiat money system. And "rising prices" are merely a symptom of it, not by any means the cause. But governments will inform us that rising prices are a consequence of corporate greed, which requires ever more strict and oppressive government power and control whereby to mitigate/alleviate such greed so we plebes don't have to suffer from it.

PS: If the powers that be can't hold inflation at a "controllable" 2%, and it averages 3% instead, the above cost of goods rise becomes 1,233.6%. A tax of 91.9% on stagnant savings.

1.03^85 = 12.33570855

 

[MmmBeer]

I think that I'm more concerned about Clint's curry getting damp.

 

[Clint]

Disaster averted! The dopiaza now waits patiently while I quaff a few of my finest...and watch East Enders...which I don't watch...what's that all about?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

.and watch East Enders...which I don't watch...what's that all about?

Our lass watches that i stay in the kitchen and put the laptop to some use, love the peace and quiet.

 

[Clint]

They're a right load a geezers...

 

[Chippy_Tea]

They're a right load a geezers...

Youre avin a larf

 

[Clint]

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Here's one to ponder. If the average human aspires to live to the age of 85, and our central banks are targeting what they inform us to be a very mild and controllable "ideal" annual inflation rate of a mere 2%, then in one average/desired human lifetime the average cost of goods will rise by 538.3%

1.02^85 = 5.382878779

Currency devaluation via inflation is what this really amounts too. It is also an 81.42% tax on stagnant savings over the span of one desired lifetime. And it's "baked" into the fiat money system. And "rising prices" are merely a symptom of it, not by any means the cause. But governments will inform us that rising prices are a consequence of corporate greed, which requires ever more strict and oppressive government power and control whereby to mitigate/alleviate such greed so we plebes don't have to suffer from it.

PS: If the powers that be can't hold inflation at a "controllable" 2%, and it averages 3% instead, the above cost of goods rise becomes 1,233.6%. A tax of 91.9% on stagnant savings.

1.03^85 = 12.33570855

Just what I was thinking before I had my full frontal lobotomy. My psychiatrist tells me that I am fine now though, but I am in two minds about that

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

A few concerns of mine:

1) ERoEI (energy returned on energy invested). When more energy in one form is expended whereby to yield less energy in either the same or another form things get interesting. For but one example, if it takes more refined gasoline consumption whereby to extract crude oil from the ground than can then be converted into gasoline via processing and refining the extracted crude oil, then does it become game over for using gasoline power to extract crude oil?

2) What I will refer to as RRoEI (resources returned on energy invested). An individual example: Rare earth metals are required for (among other things) solar power and electric vehicles. When the energy expended whereby to mine, process, refine, and market the rare earth minerals exceeds the value that lies within the rare earth metals, does that mean the pursuit of rare earth minerals has hit game over?

3) The potential that we will eventually reach "Peak Everything".

4) High Grading. High grading is the human nature driven tendency/desire to tap/mine/exploit the richest resource discovery zones first, whereby to deplete the very best among them first, making all future resource mining more costly and less fruitful, and also much more energy intensive.

5) When extracting oil from the ground requires fracturing the very earth itself, as opposed to simply sinking a shaft, this seems to indicate that all of the earths simple to reach oil has already been high graded, leaving only the most hard to get at dregs that require such drastic measures.

6) Will throwing ever more amounts of money fabricated out of thin air always solve problems such as the scant few I've listed above?

7) A joking way to look at all of this: A woman is trying to hang a picture by driving a nail into the wall, but hasn't got the right tools. Her dad, who has been watching, quickly sketches a picture of a hammer on a piece of paper and hands it to his daughter. The daughter wails: "Dad, that only works for money!". (note: joke stolen, not original to me)

But how do you factor entropy into this?

 

[Brianbrewed]

Are you saying we should go back to the gold standard?

 

[Clint]

Beer and curry standards....

 

[Argentum]

Are you saying we should go back to the gold standard?

Certainly NOT, if it's a "fractional reserve" based gold standard. That's not much different from fiat.

I happen to think silver should be part of a nominal standard. Not just gold.

BTW, which safe would you prefer to be lucky enough to recover if you only had one shot at it? (see my other current post in the "Is Capitalism exploiting you?" thread for the jist of this one)

 

[Brianbrewed]

Neither, I am terrified of water and enclosed spaces. Can't do submarines

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Neither, I am terrified of water and enclosed spaces. Can't do submarines

Brian

Are you - so am I re enclosed spaces - recently asked to go for a scan in a tunnel scanner - just couldn't do it

 

[Brianbrewed]

I reckon I could do the tunnel scanner at a push.
Primordial fear of been buried alive.
I did the cu chi tunnel tour in Vietnam yonks ago. Amazing but I was bricking it

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

I reckon I could do the tunnel scanner at a push.
Primordial fear of been buried alive.
I did the cu chi tunnel tour in Vietnam yonks ago. Amazing but I was bricking it

Yes - not at all logical - hope all is well with you otherwise

@Argentum sorry if we have hijacked your thread

 

[Brianbrewed]

@Argentum
Are you arguing against MMT here.???
Are you saying it will eventually lead to inflation?

 

[Argentum]

@Argentum
Are you arguing against MMT here.???
Are you saying it will eventually lead to inflation?

I think the dawn of fractional reserve currency establishes the 'ground zero' time for the emergence of MMT. This takes it way back in time. Fiat currency merely takes it to a next higher level. "Same-Same, but different." (to toss in a common Chinese saying that somehow seems fitting here).

Are you happy with 2% to 3% inflation long term? Come to think of it, most all of us have never lived under any other environment than fiat and it's baked in inflation model. We likely can't imagine any alternative.