The police again

[Duncs]

As a photographer, I am afraid that the subject of 'not being allowed/against the law to take photographs/ video in a public place' comes up time and time again. I have printed off the BJP guidance, and when confronted, politely point this out, I also have attached to that Lancashire constabulary's guidance to officers (due to them having to apologise to photographers several times). Most often this does the trick, copping an attitude most certainly does not! It doesn't matter how right you are, it does not give you the right to act like a snotty arse!!

Starting a Topic with the title "The Police Again" is going to get backs up, And like PD I am somewhat fed up with people lumping all police as bad . . . I don't think I've ever had a bad encounter with a police officer . . . and that even includes the time a whole minibus turned up accusing me of trying to pull a girl into our car! (long story).

It's not a job I could do, and I have nothing but respect for those of them that do. Before criticising them try walking a mile in there shoes, and consider that you may not be returning to your loved ones and the end of the shift.

Totally agree. This does seem to be a video of someone deliberately antagonizing the officers, even though the guy is technically correct, the way he is going about it is wrong.

I'm also a photographer and have only run into a problem with the police once with regard to taking pictures, they asked me to delete everything I had taken. After talking to them for a while and them checking with base, I got an apology from them.

The vast majority of police officers do an outstanding job, it's not one I could do.

 

[abeyptfc]

so the police are randomly walking about and decide to just walk down this guys garden without any reason? and he just happens to have a camera already filming, and happens to know the law aswell! methinks the film director is probably a junkie who has previous for being a junkie, possibly theft, handling stolen goods and has more asbo's than I have had ham shanks.

 

[alawlor66430]

so the police are randomly walking about and decide to just walk down this guys garden without any reason? and he just happens to have a camera already filming, and happens to know the law aswell! methinks the film director is probably a junkie who has previous for being a junkie, possibly theft, handling stolen goods and has more asbo's than I have had ham shanks.

cracked the case there mark lol.

 

[abeyptfc]

so the police are randomly walking about and decide to just walk down this guys garden without any reason? and he just happens to have a camera already filming, and happens to know the law aswell! methinks the film director is probably a junkie who has previous for being a junkie, possibly theft, handling stolen goods and has more asbo's than I have had ham shanks.

cracked the case there mark lol.

aye! its true aswell, its probably a stolen camera he's filming it on.

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

My first thoughts..... :hmm: Probably a low life scumbag known to police who's trying to get a reaction from the officers on camera...... ******!!!
Same here regarding the force, I've never had a problem with the police service....

BB

 

[graysalchemy]

As a photographer, I am afraid that the subject of 'not being allowed/against the law to take photographs/ video in a public place' comes up time and time again. I have printed off the BJP guidance, and when confronted, politely point this out, I also have attached to that Lancashire constabulary's guidance to officers (due to them having to apologise to photographers several times). Most often this does the trick, copping an attitude most certainly does not! It doesn't matter how right you are, it does not give you the right to act like a snotty arse!!

Starting a Topic with the title "The Police Again" is going to get backs up, And like PD I am somewhat fed up with people lumping all police as bad . . . I don't think I've ever had a bad encounter with a police officer . . . and that even includes the time a whole minibus turned up accusing me of trying to pull a girl into our car! (long story).

It's not a job I could do, and I have nothing but respect for those of them that do. Before criticising them try walking a mile in there shoes, and consider that you may not be returning to your loved ones and the end of the shift.

Well said Tony :clap: :clap:.

My concerns were with the contentious nature of the title of the post and the way the OP just posted a link with no opinion of their own, like leaving a box of fireworks and matches in a kids playground.

If you want to have a debate about something or introduce a topic for debate then fine but don't goad the forum with something which is contentious and wait for a heated response from members of the forum. If you have something to say about the video say it don't hide behind everyone elses opinions.

 

[LeithR]

Before criticising them try walking a mile in there shoes

The corollary to this of course is that after the exercise you are a mile away AND you have their shoes!

Agree with PD and others - poorly presented topic!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So the guy who had every right to film in his own garden and be a little annoyed at being told be is committing an offence is now a crak dealing scum bag with previous and a stolen camera, you couldn't make it up.

 

[LeithR]

@Chippy_tea,
I thought thats just what we had been doing?!!!

 

[graysalchemy]

So the guy who had every right to film in his own garden and be a little annoyed at being told be is committing an offence is now a crak dealing scum bag with previous and a stolen camera, you couldn't make it up.

Well thats what you get if you allow the forum to light the touch paper and walk away.

We still haven't heard your views of this whole topic just scant provocative statements.

Please enlighten us.

 

[Aleman]

The guy who had every right to film in his own garden and be a little annoyed at being told be is committing an offence

Actually came over as a complete knowitall arse with a confrontational attitude, that quite frankly deserved it. Unfortunately as so often happens in these cases it is the police who come of worse.

The polices job is to enforce the law, but when you consider the vast number of laws (both Civil and Common) in this country that have never been repealed, and are now so ludicrous is it any wonder that on some occasions some officers get it wrong especially when it is 'common knowledge' that the law says . . . . . when in fact it says no such thing.

When was the last time you heard of a Cab driver being done for not having a bale of hay in the boot of his cab . . . Yes it is law . . . and it is still on the statute books

 

[Jeltz]

I think they should have arrested him for stalking.

 

[andyakameatloaf]

I can truly see and respect both sides of this discussion equally, so im gonna lay both my cards down.
Wwith regards to that video, the start of the video (before the police come down his path) looks very much as though those officers were sent there. They are looking for something, not just patrolling. The fact the guy had a camera ready would suggest he felt he needed to protect himself. Why? If he had done nothing wrong, why would he not wait until the police came knocking (if they did) and say "yes officer, whats the matter?"

Agree with others here, clearly a dodgey bloke or one with a less-than-healthy distrust of authority. Also agree that the topic is inflammatory, though I don't believe the OP intended it to be. I believe he felt his opinion would be met with agreement, as in the case of the bobby on the blower while driving the other say, and therefore offend no-one and incite nothing.

WITH THAT BEING SAID...
from the flip side of the coin, it would seem that the police are unwilling to speak with him on camera, and that they leave the situation after being told filming is not a crime. A measured amount of distrust is a very healthy thing. Checks and balances are a required part of any authority, to stop it turning into something totalitarian. The most worrying aspect that the video highlights to me is why do police insist filming them is a crime? There are hundreds of videos of British Police claiming this exact statement, one I've seen involving an officer then tackling a cyclist to the ground for a road offence. What was the intention of the officers once the camera had stopped rolling?

Apparently unlike others here, I personally have had run ins with the police, the more fine details of which I wont go into, however it is safe to say the words "what a b***** I'd only just bought that pint" directed as a jest to a mate of mine do not equate to a reasonable and measured response of a police officer picking me up by my throat and pinning me against the wall of Livingstones in Barnsley. And before anyone says "maybe you looked dangerous", if you could see me, you would know my body is incapable of giving off aggressive behaviour that may have sparked such a response - I look like a Snorlax (though on that front - kudos to the officer on getting me off the ground!).

As others have mentioned, I'm not saying all police are bad, there is bad and good in every walk of life. Although I DO believe that officers have more of a responsability to be morally gracious than most. If they take the responsability to uphold the law, they should uphold the spirit of the law, rather than the letter of it, and they should be prepared to live either a life of hypocrisy in breaking it, or a life of (unlikely) saintly virtue by not.

I don't think that the police should know every law - there are certainly lawyers and judges who don't, and that occupation requires far far far far more legal training and knowledge. However I do believe that they should not be allowed to act upon a law that they are unfamiliar with, and that they should not lie in order to maintain a position of authority in a situation that doesn't necessitate one, such as that of a man filming them with a video camera, and apparently doing nothing else wrong. With great power comes great responsability and all that...

 

[alawlor66430]

Next time I get a taxi I'll be pulling him up about the hay

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So the guy who had every right to film in his own garden and be a little annoyed at being told be is committing an offence is now a crak dealing scum bag with previous and a stolen camera, you couldn't make it up.

Well thats what you get if you allow the forum to light the touch paper and walk away.

We still haven't heard your views of this whole topic just scant provocative statements.

Please enlighten us.

If you had bothered to read the thread fully you would have seen my earlier post -

"What has that got to do with these two abusing their power, I find it worrying these two thought it was an offence for a person to video them and when he explained that it was not an offence they carried on as if he was in the wrong not them"

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I can truly see and respect both sides of this discussion equally, so im gonna lay both my cards down.
Wwith regards to that video, the start of the video (before the police come down his path) looks very much as though those officers were sent there.

I disagree, they are walking along the footpath on the opposite side of the road, it looks to me the male PO caught site of him just after the video started and by the time the car passes (see below) they had almost gone out of sight.

You will also notice he has a very hifg hedge both sides of him so the theory he was deliberately filming them so he could have an argument is ridiculous, it looks to me like he was already filming in the garden when they passed the end of his garden on he other side of the road.

 

[Tim_Crowhurst]

Next time I get a taxi I'll be pulling him up about the hay

The difference between that law and the lack of any law banning video recording of the police is that there is no longer any value in keeping a bale of hay in a taxi, while there is very definitely value in ensuring that the police don't overstep their authority. In a situation where it's your word against the police officer's, most courts of law will side with the officer irrespective of whether or not you are telling the truth. Video evidence is a kind of insurance policy against bent coppers.

 

[Wez]

I'll add this topic to my list of things never to discuss in a pub.

Religion.
Politics.
Police Officers being filmed.

From what I can see all this thread is achieving is to get a few people a tad wound up? Not sure if that's the intention though, it's hard to tell. :hmm:

 

[graysalchemy]

If you had bothered to read the thread fully you would have seen my earlier post -

"What has that got to do with these two abusing their power, I find it worrying these two thought it was an offence for a person to video them and when he explained that it was not an offence they carried on as if he was in the wrong not them"

So why did you not open the discussion with something to that effect instead of waiting for someone to fall into your trap. That way someone could respond to your debate.

And yes I have read all the posts from the very start hence why I was able to ask for everyone to play nicely.

 

[calumscott]

http://www.bjp-online.com/category/rights/street-rights[/url] where those who video or photograph in public can get themselves well informed such as to HELP our officers with an area of law which has been changing rapidly over the past few years in a calm and rational manner (quite unlike the belligerent nature of the videographer in the clip) if they ever find themselves in such a situation.

Further, why did the post come with the title "The police again" which to me at least has connotations of "see, they're at it again" and not "there may be a common misconception in the force about the law regarding filming and photography in public"?

Further, the videographer didn't "explain", he "stated" and then began to challenge the officers on what they thought the law was rather than calmly and rationally helping them to understand - which would be my understanding of "explain".

Further, the assertion that the garden was fully enclosed is false. There are a couple of zoomed out frames where it is obvious that the the hedge to the left is broken and not continuous. It therefore remains a very real possibility that the videographer has filmed them from prior to this clip as they patrolled from left to right as we see it. We do not have the full picture.

The ONLY thing IMO that the officers got wrong here was to just wander off with their tails between their legs. I would have preferred them to have acknowledged their mistake and regained the moral high-ground.

Finally, it is not a police officer's remit to know the ins and outs of EVERY law of the land. They do not and legally can not pass judgement. This is why you can tick the "I want a hearing" box on any fixed penalty notice. They are there to ensure that the law is upheld and have the right to challenge us when they *believe* us to be breaking the law - they are not, despite the common nickname, "The law".

So, photographers' rights - very important civil liberty. And one dear to me (and clearly Tony too).

IMO this was not any attempt whatsoever to further knowledge of that. After all why would you post it here and not http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/ here for example...? Also IMO, that clip and the attitude of its *star* serves to hinder the debate and demean the efforts made by the sane and rational imagers out there rather than help the cause.

So, if we are to assume, as I now do, that this wasn't about photograpers' rights it must only be about police officers who don't know every law. Which is just odd, because how on earth could *any* one person know them all, let alone 132,000 individuals know every law in force in the UK. If any one of them was that smart they would either be making millions at the bar or making millions circumventing the law.

I think perhaps some people need to accept that each officer is limited in terms of the laws they instinctively know and that the law itself makes provision for this, accept that they actually do a good job (with a few cock ups along the way) just like we all do in our respective careers and find something more productive to do than moan about other peoples failings. While I really quite enjoy an active debate such as this, I much prefer a more productive one.

Out.