The Mixed Fermentation Thread

[Ajhutch]

You should bottle it and then send me one! That blend has diastaticus and Brett so given time it’s likely to get to 1.000 so just bear that in mind I guess with priming levels.

 

[Ajhutch]

Cracked the fermentation bucket on my Flanders red just a tiiiiiiny little bit to have a smell, it’s starting to sour and has a lovely jammy fruitiness. I think the red wine yeast was a winner!

 

[Zephyr259]

Right, time is up on me procrastinating at my sours as my wife says if I don't deal with the 23L carboy "that's growing stuff" it may vanish one time I'm offshore.

I have a 23L demijohn of golden sour made with Roeselare (brewed 12/12/18), 11L of oud bruin which got a whole heap of dregs an commercial bret (brewed 4/9/18) and 11L of Brett C old ale brewed (25/7/18), so they should all be well stable by now... Part of why they got left is they all finished higher than expected, around 1.010 so I was nervous of bottling them then just forgot about them as they were tucked away. Original plan had been to solera the 23L carboy as I don't really want 40+ bottles of sour.

My plan was to siphon out the beer into my stainless FV (originally bought so I could do sours without contaminating a plastic bucket) which then lets me bottles them and I can nuke all the bottling things in sodium percarbonate and starsan or just buy new since they're all about 4 years old now and I don't use the siphon anymore.

My big issue is how to bottle condition these? After 2 years conditioning I'm guessing I'll need some fresh yeast as even the brett has likely gone to sleep, should I get some of the bottle conditioning yeast and pitch some of that?

 

[geigercntr]

Right, time is up on me procrastinating at my sours as my wife says if I don't deal with the 23L carboy "that's growing stuff" it may vanish one time I'm offshore.

I have a 23L demijohn of golden sour made with Roeselare (brewed 12/12/18), 11L of oud bruin which got a whole heap of dregs an commercial bret (brewed 4/9/18) and 11L of Brett C old ale brewed (25/7/18), so they should all be well stable by now... Part of why they got left is they all finished higher than expected, around 1.010 so I was nervous of bottling them then just forgot about them as they were tucked away. Original plan had been to solera the 23L carboy as I don't really want 40+ bottles of sour.

My plan was to siphon out the beer into my stainless FV (originally bought so I could do sours without contaminating a plastic bucket) which then lets me bottles them and I can nuke all the bottling things in sodium percarbonate and starsan or just buy new since they're all about 4 years old now and I don't use the siphon anymore.

My big issue is how to bottle condition these? After 2 years conditioning I'm guessing I'll need some fresh yeast as even the brett has likely gone to sleep, should I get some of the bottle conditioning yeast and pitch some of that?

I'd go with some champagne yeast (I use the CML one). There may well be some yeast still in the beer that'll do the job, but for my sours, I've had issues that I suspect are linked to THP when straight bottling. It fades over time, but these issues haven't been apparent when I've added bottling yeast

 

[Zephyr259]

I'd go with some champagne yeast (I use the CML one). There may well be some yeast still in the beer that'll do the job, but for my sours, I've had issues that I suspect are linked to THP when straight bottling. It fades over time, but these issues haven't been apparent when I've added bottling yeast

Thanks, I was also a bit concerned about THP.

 

[geigercntr]

Also, for some reason I've yet to figure out, most of my sours seem to finish around FG1.010 too...

 

[BeerCat]

My big issue is how to bottle condition these? After 2 years conditioning I'm guessing I'll need some fresh yeast as even the brett has likely gone to sleep, should I get some of the bottle conditioning yeast and pitch some of that?

I use a pippette now and add 1ml of fresh yeast from the bottom of a starter to each bottle. Getting less sediment and i can be sure they will carb up. You can also use brett as it will scavage the oxygen in the bottle.

 

[BeerCat]

Also, for some reason I've yet to figure out, most of my sours seem to finish around FG1.010 too...

Add some glucoamylase and that should bring it down to 1000. You can also add brett with the advantage its ready to package from 4 to 6 weeks.

 

[BeerCat]

What is the deal when using raw wheat? I had a turbid mash schedule but i cant find it and am concerned about efficiency with unmalted wheat. I bought some chit malt to boost the DP but i presume that is not at all traditional.

 

[strange-steve]

What is the deal when using raw wheat? I had a turbid mash schedule but i cant find it and am concerned about efficiency with unmalted wheat. I bought some chit malt to boost the DP but i presume that is not at all traditional.

I can't really help with the raw wheat I'm afraid, never used it, I went the easy way and used flaked wheat. Wrt the turbid mash, there is a lot of great info, including the Cantillon mash schedule, on Milk the Funk. I suspect however, that the recipe and mash specifics are perhaps not as important for a lambic as we might think. It's interesting that Jamil Z and Steve Piatz both use extract for their (multi award-winning) lambics, and Michael Tonesmeire also has an extract lambic recipe.

 

[geigercntr]

I can't really help with the raw wheat I'm afraid, never used it, I went the easy way and used flaked wheat. Wrt the turbid mash, there is a lot of great info, including the Cantillon mash schedule, on Milk the Funk. I suspect however, that the recipe and mash specifics are perhaps not as important for a lambic as we might think. It's interesting that Jamil Z and Steve Piatz both use extract for their (multi award-winning) lambics, and Michael Tonesmeire also has an extract lambic recipe.

I've used the Tonsmeire recipe and can definitely recommend it

 

[BeerCat]

I can't really help with the raw wheat I'm afraid, never used it, I went the easy way and used flaked wheat. Wrt the turbid mash, there is a lot of great info, including the Cantillon mash schedule, on Milk the Funk. I suspect however, that the recipe and mash specifics are perhaps not as important for a lambic as we might think. It's interesting that Jamil Z and Steve Piatz both use extract for their (multi award-winning) lambics, and Michael Tonesmeire also has an extract lambic recipe.

The one i saw involved adding boiling water for a step mash. The other would be too complex for my setup. I might cheat and add some malto dextrin. Thanks Steve will read them again later.

 

[BeerCat]

I have had really good success using the modern no boil fast funky sour method. They are ready to consume after 5 or 6 weeks.
Make a 1l brett starter 5 days before brewing and a 1l lacto starter. I don't use a stirbar and keep it on a heat mat. I do a full volume mash and at 75c+ mashout aim for a gravity of 1040. Grist is a mixture of pilsner and wheat, you can add flaked oats or wheat etc. Once wort is cool pitch all the brett, some sac yeast (WLP644 ), glucoamylase and after 24 hours the lacto starter. The gluco ensures the gravity drops to 1000 fast. I have been adding an oak tea after 6 weeks then dry hopping a week later. You could do this with extract as well. Link is here for full instructions here Modern Brewehouse sour beer. Highly recommend giving this a go as its super easy and something to drink whilst waiting for other stuff.

 

[Sadfield]

What is the deal when using raw wheat? I had a turbid mash schedule but i cant find it and am concerned about efficiency with unmalted wheat. I bought some chit malt to boost the DP but i presume that is not at all traditional.

The raw wheat is used to get unconverted starch in the wort, which makes the wort turbid and highly dextrinous. Great for slow fermentation.

I've never used raw wheat so don't know how it behaves, but suspect the complicated turbid mash schedule is just the way to get maximum extraction (but not conversion) from a gloopy mess.

 

[Ajhutch]

Don’t know it’d it’s an urban myth or an Occam’s Razor...........but I’ve heard Turbid mash was used because back then Belgium used to tax breweries based on the size of the mash tun.

 

[BeerCat]

What is the deal with a solera? How often can i pull from it and how much? Thinking about getting another 60l fermenter.

 

[Zephyr259]

What is the deal with a solera? How often can i pull from it and how much? Thinking about getting another 60l fermenter.

From my research a couple of years ago you can pull every 6 months or so, basically once the the gravity is stable. My plan had been to draw half the 23L after 6 months and refill it, then repeat after 6 months. You can fill with wort or green beer, think wort gets more character as the bugs get more sugar but then you get more and more trub. Eventually, they go acetic and need dumped but I seem to recall my blog geting about 3 years? Might have been the Mad Fermentationist or a link from there.

Blending in a darker beer early in the life of the solera is meant to help with oxidation since the darker malts protect it a bit.

My beer didn't ferment in primary very well then didn't do much else in secondary for about a year which is why I never continued with my plan.

 

[Sadfield]

Don’t know it’d it’s an urban myth or an Occam’s Razor...........but I’ve heard Turbid mash was used because back then Belgium used to tax breweries based on the size of the mash tun.

Stems from Dutch law from 1822, according to Geoff Sparrows Wild Brews book. Could also be tax on malted grain, hence the use of raw wheat.

 

[Sadfield]

What is the deal with a solera? How often can i pull from it and how much? Thinking about getting another 60l fermenter.

I've done 2/3rds at 6 months with mine. Although I stepped up from 9 to 19l keg last time and it's now due a pull and fill at a year on.

I ferment in primary for a couple of days then transfer to the solera, I find this long enough to keep the trub in the fv.

 

[Zephyr259]

Today I sampled both my sours and they both taste good, and the gravity was the same as last time. The oud bruin is complex and fruity where the golden is milder in both acidity and funk. Makes sense given the OB is almost 8% and based on a bock and got a whole mess of dregs plus a commercial brett blend, where the gold is a much simpler beer and was fermented with a kveik yeast and Roeselare.

To help with bottle conditioning I does each carboy with some of the Omega DIPA yeast cake from the bitter I bottled the other day then they got some sugar which should hopefully wake the yeast up and get some CO2 back into solution before bottling.