the legalities of negative feedback

[Crastney]

I've noticed the new rule that we're now not allowed to give negative feedback on home brew suppliers (or any company to do with homebrew I suppose), in case they take offence and then legal action against the forum.

here's the thing - if a person has a bad experience, and they write about it on their own personal blog, and what they write is a factual account of what happened, and there own opinions, and their experience. well that's perfectly legal. However if you make stuff up, and misrepresent someone, or something, well then that could cause problems.

I don't therefore see the need to ban all negative feedback - the feedback could be moderated, maybe checked that it's an accurate representation before allowing it to be posted, but if you stop negative feedback, you'd also have to stop positive feedback, to avoid discrimination.

Surely we homebrewers should be made aware of companies that have dodgy practices, or who are, in the opinions of others here, not customer focussed, or selling out of date yeast, or whatever it happens to be, and yes, ok if a company contacts the admin to request that a post is removed, then admin would have to look into if that's reasonable or not. Maybe remove the post, but replace it with a post holder explaining that the post has been removed after a request from the company in question, and leave the thread open for others to comment.

If a company doesn't like negative feedback, well that's just tough, if they actually deserve it. If they threaten legal action, it's usually a bluff, to remove the content. If the post isn't contentious, in my opinion, it should be left to stand -

each case is different though, and up to the admin and moderators to decide, but I feel a blanket ban on all negative feedback is a bad desicion.

 

[Aleman]

How do we, the mods and admin, know if the negative feedback is genuine? (The majority is but in one case it was a competitor posting negatively)

How do we respond to a solicitors letter? The only correct way is to collect all the evidence and then go to a solicitor and have them draft a letter and send it to the first solicitor and the company . . .Which costs money just to defend one item of negative feedback . . .the likelihood is that that would have to be done for each and every item. Who would be willing to pay for that??

If a retailer does not wish to allow negative feedback then there is no way we would allow any positive feedback for that retailer either, both are removed without prejudice

Personally, and collectively, we hate this, and know that it is a shoddy practice on behalf of the retailer, but we have not the time of the finances to deal with this properly. Plus there is always the danger of our ISP pulling the plug on the forum if they get enough complaints from a retailer.

If I had to think about it, one of the best ways of dealing with retailers with such bad practices, is to create a facebook/twitter group (Victims of ???????) (Perhaps via an online IP proxy server), and get that out there, Social Media can be very effective, and if everyone who posted a 'complaint' also posted images of screenshots showing the transactions/communication this would mean that facebook/twitter would be less inclined to pull the pages should said retailer complain and threaten legal action..

In the social media world this could quickly go viral . . . not so much via forums . . .not that I am suggesting anyone does this of course :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

 

[Hawks]

I think this has been discussed a number of times, and comes to the same end each time...

Yes, legally the forum should be safe, but if a company does challenge legally there is a potential expense regardless of whether the facts are accurate or not. Also the hassle for the mods and admins - how could they possibly know if the person experience is true or not.

There is no reason to ban positive feedback, no-one can say they are being discriminated against just because they have no feedback on a site.

The amount of positive feedback on companies, and of course the sponsors who pay leaves plenty of opportunities for users to find a company that has a positive review from members.

Personally I think it's easier to leave this well alone instead of dragging it up every few months / weeks


Edit - AND just beaten to it by Aleman

 

[Crastney]

I understand that it's a tough call to make, and it's a shame that this stance is taken for all companies when one or two bad uns ruin the whole thing.

however you've got to do what you've got to do to cover your own backs, without spending shed loads of money or time that you don't have.

i won't post any bad reviews here.

 

[Moley]

That's all we are asking.

If anyone has a negative experience with any supplier, discuss it by PM with any of the Admin or Mods before venting your frustrations on the forum.

 

[oldbloke]

For what it's worth, I just recently cancelled an order to That Supplier, and had no trouble doing so by email and the repayment process has started and will take as long as it would from anybody. And I only cancelled coz I couldn't be arsed to wait until they could source some stock - OK, marking stuff as 'available' might confuse an idiot like me, but they never claimed to have it 'in stock'.

 

[calumscott]

The point is that we, the posting homebrewing public, may well have a point to make. But that's the point - its OUR point. Not THBF's.

THBF exists as a place to discuss homebrewing first and foremost and I'm absolutely with the Mods on this - anything that could threaten its existence should simply be excluded. THBF as a thing can't verify the posts but it does host them and it does make money (probably barely enough to pay for the hosting...) from it's sponsors. That means that it has the capacity to be seen in certain lights which leave it open to litigation.

If the simple answer (just like the Dword discussions) is to simply not have it here in the first place then that's what should be done. That way THBF remains here for ideas, recipes, experience, help and banter like it should be.

If you really do feel the need to vent your fury at the supplier who shall not be named there will be plenty of places out there that will happily carry that content. In fact you can host a dedictated I hate That Supplier website for less than the price of a premium two-can kit!

That then publicises it for all the people you want to warn but doesn't risk the resource that is THBF.

Just exclude them. If you want to warn a user suggesting they might be about to use them I guess you could legitimately PM them with your experience but in public forum it's got to be a :nono: .

Maybe someone will come along with a link to a more open review site than trustpilot where one could vent their anger?

 

[Essex_Lad]

Well it seems that trustpilot has now opened up to accept reviews from anyone and not the "chosen" few.

 

[calumscott]

Well it seems that trustpilot has now opened up to accept reviews from anyone and not the "chosen" few.

So that puts the whole thing to bed then. No need to have any negative feedback on here at all in future.

Job done, well done mods and trustpilot!

 

[Moley]

Whoever it was that instigated any changes at Trustpilot, I think they have done good.

Further to that, WILL YOU LOT PLEASE PACK IT IN! :evil:

This is no longer about any one particular supplier, it's an ongoing policy change and polite request from Admin.

If you have positive feedback for any supplier, post it.
If you have negative feedback for any supplier, let's discuss it.

How they respond to criticism or deal with the problems which will inevitably arise from time to time is a good measure of any company. Airing grievances in public is rarely the best solution.

Now have I got to lock another topic?

 

[graysalchemy]

This same discussion has come up on my framing forum. When ever someone posts up something less than positive about one particular supplier, they appear to put pressure on admin (though admin deny this) The thread is locked and someone gets banned (usually me).

Now it nearly happened again last night, mods gave warnings, others loyal to that company issued a fatwa, and I nearly got banned for trying to calm it down (and exercise the rights of freedom of speech). However on this occasion sense prevailed and the company inquestion realised they were getting bad press sorted out the problem and now everyone is singing their praises

Win Win situation.

Having said all that I totally agree with the rules placed on this forum. Its just easier that way.

 

[RobWalker]

^ Same, it's not a case of right and wrong on the forum, just the owners keeping everybody happy, we should respect that...

It's a strange thing to threaten legal action though - I deal with unhappy customers every day at work and at the end of the day, if someone is dissatisfied, it's down to the company and the staff to fix the issue and learn from it...one complaint is the frustrations of ten customers. you're the one handing money over at the end of the day, and its in the best interest of any company to get feedback and ideas from their customers if something is wrong.

 

[Essex_Lad]

^ Same, it's not a case of right and wrong on the forum, just the owners keeping everybody happy, we should respect that...

It's a strange thing to threaten legal action though - I deal with unhappy customers every day at work and at the end of the day, if someone is dissatisfied, it's down to the company and the staff to fix the issue and learn from it...one complaint is the frustrations of ten customers. you're the one handing money over at the end of the day, and its in the best interest of any company to get feedback and ideas from their customers if something is wrong.

+1

 

[31bb3]

Personally i think enough has been said reqarding this issue thbf has made their situation perfectly clear and amended the forum rules to suit