Sweetness

[Sandimas]

Been drinking a lot of real ale over Xmas in local pubs, and one thing that struck both me and the fellow homebrewer I've been drinking with is how sweet the beers seem compared to our homebrew ales.

How would you get a sweeter brew with homebrew? And is it anything to do with bitterness, should I go for less IBUs (despite brewing for 6 years, I'm still not sure I really understand bitterness).

I tend to brew mainly British ales.

 

[Slid]

A few ideas to increase the body and sweetness of a finished beer:

Use more crystal malt in the recipe
Mash at a slightly higher temp - say 67C instead of 65C
Use a less attenuating yeast, e.g. S04 instead of US05
Add lactose, which does not ferment for an ale yeast

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
@Slid :thumb:
Mash up to 70C for more sweetness.
More detail here.
John Palmer suggests that a "stiffer" mash results in a sweeter beer - he suggests less than 3 litres per kilogram.

 

[Sandimas]

Thanks guys, think I'll try the higher mash temp - I've gone up to 15% crystal but still no noticeable increase in sweetness, and S04 is already my "house yeast".

 

[kohoutec]

Give this stuff a go it has always left some residual sweetness when I've used it. Just pitched a sachet into a chocolate stout as it goes

http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/product-details/london-esb-english-style-ale-yeast/

 

[MickDundee]

If you’ve been drinking hand pulled cask ales, could the “sweetness” you are encountering be from the difference in mouthfeel from a cask compared to bottle bringing out different flavours?

 

[Leon103]

I and a number of friends always notice this from the casks at my local. Thought it may be poor conditioning/pouring conditions.

 

[Grizzly299]

It's probably the Final Gravity to IBU ratio. I'd say that a lot of readily available traditional cask bitters are pretty low on IBU's in relation to their final gravities, altering perceived bitterness.

If you take a look at the attenuation % of more traditional British ale yeasts like Windsor or London ESB, they max out in the late 60's low 70's. Of course giving a sweeter beer.

These medium attenuating yeasts don't work on maltotriose, which can make up to 15% of your wort depending on mash temps and adjuncts. Couple that with a propensity for using a little too much crystal and I recon that may go some way toward explaining what you're tasting.

I also agree with the point that Mick made about carbonation, you can emulate cask condition in the bottle by aiming for about 1-1.5 volumes of C02. Too much C02 can give the taster an impression of a "thin" beer, even so a lot of homebrewers are very slap dash with regards to carbonation.

 

[serum]

I've always found my brew to lack a certain sweetness and body compared to professional brews. I've found the same with other home brewers too. Less body and sometimes what tastes like oxidation masking those really sweet flavours.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Simonh82]

SO4 is still a pretty highly attenuating yeast. If you want to stick to dry yeast something like Windsor would be a good bet.

I think yeast choice will have more effect than mash temp. Whilst a high mash temp will produce more un-fermentable dextrin sugars, these are sweet like table sugar. For example they use malto-dextrins as the flavour carrier in potato crisps and you don't often thing of salt and vinegar crisps as sweet.

I also wouldn't underestimate the impact of being cask conditioned (maybe slightly oxidised) and pulled on a hand pump. These things can subtlety but significantly impact the flavour and mouth feel of a beer.

 

[simon12]

If you have already used up to 15% crystal and S04 I going with its the CO2 difference.

 

[ACBEV]

If you want to have a sweeter beer with more body, you need to look at several factors, all will have an impact...

Water chemistry (Don't be shy to learn, even small changes can impact on how your beer tastes and feels)
Yeast (Rule of .. Lower attenuation = Sweeter)
Mash Temp. (Rule of .. Higher temp. = Sweeter)
Grain Bill (Adding sweeter malts to your recipe, may or may not add undesirable flavours to your beer. Like Caramalt/crystal malt, mild malt, vienna malt, munich malt. Also a small percentage of wheat malt (3-5%) will add mouth feel. Oat malt will add mouth feel too.)

If it were me. I'd start with three things... 1. Mash temp. 2. Yeast 3. Wheat Malt and see what happens!

 

[Zephyr259]

I've finally made a beer I would call sweet. It's the traditional bock from Greg Hughes book, I tweaked the mash temp a bit so mine started at 1.066 and finished at 1.017 (wyeast 2124) for 6.4% abv but it's only got 22 IBUs which only just balances it out. Crystal wise it had 8% carapils and 6% special B, so 14% total crystal malts.

 

[Sandimas]

If it were me. I'd start with three things... 1. Mash temp. 2. Yeast 3. Wheat Malt and see what happens!

I already do no.3, use wheat malt and/or caramalt in most of my brews.

I have a brew in the keg at the moment and that does taste closer to a pub beer. I half-kegged half-bottled the batch and the keg version is definately more authentic.

I'm going to do the first brew on the year tomorrow so I will try a higher mash temperature and see how that turns out.

 

[Gunge]

Mash high and stop it after 45mins by chucking in enough boiling water to raise it to 77C. Works for me.

 

[Sandimas]

Thanks all - put a brew on this morning, a Scottish 80 shilling with a low IBU (22) and mashed high so we'll see how it turns out.:thumb:

 

[Covrich]

Yeast can really make a big difference , Don't just chuck Wilko in everything you can get some English ale yeasts which are more closer to 70% attenuation which do give a slightly sweeter finish..

I liked Wyeast London Ale III for a higher finish , I am going to use it again on an ESB and a Porter in a few weeks.