Substituting sucrose for Belgian candi sugar

[Twopan]

I have a favourite Leffe clone recipe that calls for 500g of clear candi rocks or syrup 15 mins before the end of the boil. It's out of stock generally. I have read you can substitute ordinary table sugar (sucrose) as long as this is included in the boil so it doesn't add a cidery flavour . Apparently the acid in the wort separates the elements of the sugar and the boiling process caramalises the sugar. It's not like adding dark candi sugar to impart certain flavours, so I guess it's only really a fancy fermentable after all, and a fraction of the price. Can anyone comment and in particular, how long should it be included in the boil for? Thanks.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I use 400g of golden syrup.

 

[gyurmaember]

I'd caramelize the sugar and make a syrup (to make it easy to pour from the pan).

 

[Agentgonzo]

I've just used plain table sugar (sucrose).
Clear rocks/syrup won't add any flavour/colour by itself and will just be 100% fermentable sugar.
Unless the sugar drops to the bottom of the kettle and sits on the element before it has time to dissolve in the wort, it won't caramelise any more or less than maltose from the mash (ie, hardly any).

You don't need to boil it for any particular length of time as nothing much will change once it has been dissolved. 5 mins is good enough. I normally chuck it in with 10 minutes to go along with the protafloc. The 15 mins in the recipe will have basically the same result.

 

[peebee]

I'd be careful of Belgium candy sugar, especially if "candy" is spelt with an "i"! The clear stuff is just white table sugar (sucrose) in solid block form. The brown stuff should be caramelised (as sucrose) a bit.

I've been told the "real" Belgium candy sugar was crushed scrap from sweet shops/manufactures.

This comes from my research into "Invert Sugar". The Belgians would have used "Invert Sugar" like the Brits, and any other form of sugar that they could get their hands on. But the crushed sweeties seems to have been a peculiarity of Belgium?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I'd be careful of Belgium candy sugar, especially if "candy" is spelt with an "i"! The clear stuff is just white table sugar (sucrose) in solid block form. The brown stuff should be caramelised (as sucrose) a bit.

I've been told the "real" Belgium candy sugar was crushed scrap from sweet shops/manufactures.

This comes from my research into "Invert Sugar". The Belgians would have used "Invert Sugar" like the Brits, and any other form of sugar that they could get their hands on. But the crushed sweeties seems to have been a peculiarity of Belgium?

Did they use the sherbet in the flying saucers.

 

[peebee]

Did they use the sherbet in the flying saucers.

Hum ... I think the flying saucer fuselage was rice paper. You might have to mash them?

 

[dad_of_jon]

I have a favourite Leffe clone recipe that calls for 500g of clear candi rocks or syrup 15 mins before the end of the boil. It's out of stock generally. I have read you can substitute ordinary table sugar (sucrose) as long as this is included in the boil so it doesn't add a cidery flavour . Apparently the acid in the wort separates the elements of the sugar and the boiling process caramalises the sugar. It's not like adding dark candi sugar to impart certain flavours, so I guess it's only really a fancy fermentable after all, and a fraction of the price. Can anyone comment and in particular, how long should it be included in the boil for? Thanks.

if you're after inverted sugars golden syrup is partially inverted and considered a poor mans candi sugar.

 

[Agentgonzo]

But the crushed sweeties seems to have been a peculiarity of Belgium?

I think it was a by-product from production of sugar for the sugar industry. If memory serves (a big "if" here, I'm by no means certain) a lot of the sugar grown in Belgium was from sugar beet rather than cane, which <something something different I can't remember> resulted in sugar syrup of varying degrees of brownness being readily available.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I contributed a lot to this discussion.

 

[Twopan]

Thanks all. Golden syrup sounds like the simplest solution.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

That’s what I said in post 2

 

[Twopan]

That’s what I said in post 2

Indeed, thanks.

 

[peebee]

if you're after inverted sugars golden syrup is partially inverted and considered a poor mans candi sugar.

Golden Syrup is widely a bit of a cheat. I was put out to learn even T&L Golden Syrup was a cheat too (still, it tastes better!). The syrup was once made from a by-product of sugar refining, but refining doesn't create that by-product no longer. The old method created partly inverted syrup as a result of the processes, whereas now sucrose is added to fully inverted syrup to get the "partly-inverted" proportions right. And the invert syrup is clear and pure and could even be created from beet sugar 'cos it doesn't contain the objectional impurities like it once did. The pleasant aspects of "raw" cane sugar are "additions" too now.

Ragus create their invert sugar from pure colourless invert syrup too (they also make "Golden Syrup"). They add their blend of molasses to get the right flavour and colour (and add dextrose to "seed" it into a solid block). The flavours in invert sugar are entirely molasses based and there is no caramelising in the process. However, "molasses" does contain caramelised elements, and the so-called "Maillard Reaction" products: But those elements were once created (unintentionally) in the sugar cane fields by (poorly paid!) sugar cane farmers with their "evaporating pans". Not convinced? Sit down and think "why is molasses often black when it comes from squeezed grass stems".

"Candy Sugar" is sucrose and not inverted. There would be caramel aspects to the coloured stuff, hence Golden Syrup makes a good substitute (Golden Syrup has caramel elements to it and is caramelised). The colourless stuff has no caramel, it is just expensive white sugar in an inconvenient blocky form.

My journey through the world of "Invert Sugar" popped many daft notions I previously had about sugars. But those silly notions are still very much alive in home-brewing circles. The "journey" has also left me with 6Kg of T&L Golden Syrup to work my way through (will I have any teeth left when its gone?)

 

[chthon]

You have to think like a professional brewer. In a product like Leffe, the cheapest sucrose based product would be used (maybe partially inverted so it stays liquid).

 

[Agentgonzo]

The "journey" has also left me with 6Kg of T&L Golden Syrup to work my way through (will I have any teeth left when its gone?)

Save your teeth! Get yeast to ferment it

 

[private4587]

Sorry to jump into this subject but i am wanting to brew David Heath's Belgian Quadrupel. in the recipe it calls for 1.6kg of Dark Candied sugar which i don't have but i do have Lyles Black Treacle could i use this and if so how much i need. Thanks for your help

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Treacle is very strong tasting and would dominate the beer, my advice is use golden syrup and darken with Special B.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Dark candy/caramelised sugar is easy to make. Took me about 10 minutes last time I did it

 

[private4587]

Treacle is very strong tasting and would dominate the beer, my advice is use golden syrup and darken with Special B.

Many thanks Cheshire Cat but could you tell me in what proportions to make up the required amount of candie

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What’s your batch size as 1.6kg seem a lot of Candi sugar.