Strong Amber Lager

[chriffle88]

Comments on recipe and advice on yeast stater please.

Never brewed a lager and so far have only ever used dry yeast. As usual I'm diving in the deep end and want my first lager to be a high gravity beer with a distinct (but balanced) malty flavour including a hint of caramel - possible a bit like a Carlsberg Special Brew.

Recipe is as below and Brewers Friend calculator tells me I need 920B cells yeast to get it where I want to be. I was thinking of using Wyeast's 2206. I've also detailed below what I think I need to do for a starter - seems pretty big to me but I suppose it is a big beer!

Would like comment on the recipe and in particular on the starter and fermentation steps. Many Thanks.

Batch Size - 22 L

6000g Pilsner
500g Medium Crystal
1000g Corn Sugar - in last 15min of boil

75g Hallertau Mittlefruh - 60 mins
25g Hallertau Mittlefruh - 15 mins

4 step mash on RIMS - Mashing in at 55c and stepping up through beta and alpha rests to mash out at 75c - 150mins total.

Protafloc, Yeast Nutrient and Clarity Ferm added in usual way.

Ferment at 12c for 3 weeks, diacetyl rest at 18c for 3 days, batch prime to 2.5vol with dextrose, carbonate at 18c for 2 weeks, lager at 1 degree for 6 weeks, drink, sleep!

Yeast Starter (no stir plate):

1. 3L + 320g DME - 48hrs
2. 3L + 320g DME - 48hrs
3. 3L + 320g DME - 48hrs
4. Chill and separate trub for pitching

 

[lupinehorror]

hopefully turns out more like the original than the stuff that's available these days in the UK.
can't advise on recipe but would like to hear how it goes.

 

[chriffle88]

hopefully turns out more like the original than the stuff that's available these days in the UK.
can't advise on recipe but would like to hear how it goes.

That's the plan @lupinehorror ! - the stuff they make now is not the stuff they made for Churchill!

 

[lupinehorror]

That's the plan @lupinehorror ! - the stuff they make now is not the stuff they made for Churchill!

exactly that!

 

[An Ankoù]

I'm a bit worried about that half-kilo of medium crystal (150-ish ebc?). I think I'd substitute all of it with carapils. I haven't got the recipe to hand, but I know Dave Line recommended a good dollop of golden syrup, which might replace some of your corn sugar. As you're going to lager this, hopefully, for a good number of months, do you really need a protein-degrading enzyme? It might wreak havoc with the head. And then, you're doing a protein rest as well at 55C as well? Why? I think I'd go for a single infusion. at 64-65C and leave it a couple of hours.
I agree that the original (9% abv) was nectar. Haven't tasted the watered down stuff and don't intend doing so. Shame on Carlesberg.

 

[chriffle88]

I'm a bit worried about that half-kilo of medium crystal (150-ish ebc?). I think I'd substitute all of it with carapils.

Thanks for the comments - what is it that you are thinking re the crystal? - in addition to the body and head contribution I was hoping to get a touch of the caramel from it. Is it the colour that you are thinking of? I also have loads of crystal in stock, but no carapils

I am not trying to make a Special Brew clone BTW - just a similar but hopefully nicer beer.

 

[foxbat]

Crystal has no place in a lager in my opinion it'll take away the crisp edge. Consider using Munich instead if you want colour.

Mash seems complicated when modern malts do very well with a single infusion. I'd be taking pre-boil measurements and be ready to add extra dextrose to the boil as most people miss their expected mash efficiency when doing a big beer for the first time.

Starter size seems inordinately large, even for a lager. Which calculator did you use? Maybe it's the lack of stir plate? You can build one for under a tenner.

 

[chriffle88]

Crystal has no place in a lager in my opinion it'll take away the crisp edge. Consider using Munich instead if you want colour.

Very good point - thank you - I'm not so fussed about the colour more wanting to add a bit of depth of flavour - would Munich not err towards a more biscuit flavour rather than the hint of caramel flavour I'm looking for?

Starter size seems inordinately large, even for a lager. Which calculator did you use? Maybe it's the lack of stir plate? You can build one for under a tenner.

I used Brewers Friend (Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator - Brewer's Friend) and thought it seemed large. I make pretty high abv ales (7-9%) with no problem using just a pack of dry yeast so have never used a starter before. When you refer to building a stir plate is that the computer fan with magnet stuck to it set up you mean? - I should probably look at making one.

 

[Cestrian]

If you don’t want to muck about with starters you can still use dry yeast. I have just made a lager 22L 5.5% abv and then split it into 2 fermenters. Fermenting one with mangrove jacks m76 and the other with m84. I fermented these 2 x 11L batches at 10c for 5 days then slowly increased the temperature 2c per day up to 18c then held for a couple more days before slowly reducing to lager temp. When it gets down to 3C I will rack these off into secondary fv’s for lagering and use the yeast cakes to make 2 more 25L lagers.
you could do the same; make a small batch of lower abv beer, with 1 pack of dry yeast then use the cake for your big brew. An easier way of doing it I find.
You said 3 weeks at 12c then a diacetyl rest. Normally this is done somewhere between the middle to the end of fermentation while the yeast is active. I usually start after 5 to 6 days to raise the temperature slowly. You also said carbonate and then lager. I think you want to lager for a month at least, then bottle or keg and carbonate. You don’t want all the **** that drops out during lagering to be in your bottles or keg.
I agree with the others on the crystal. 80% pilsner and 20% Munich or Vienna will be a much nicer beer. If you only have crystal, cut it back to 150 to 200g.

 

[chriffle88]

If you don’t want to muck about with starters you can still use dry yeast. I have just made a lager 22L 5.5% abv and then split it into 2 fermenters. Fermenting one with mangrove jacks m76 and the other with m84. I fermented these 2 x 11L batches at 10c for 5 days then slowly increased the temperature 2c per day up to 18c then held for a couple more days before slowly reducing to lager temp. When it gets down to 3C I will rack these off into secondary fv’s for lagering and use the yeast cakes to make 2 more 25L lagers.
you could do the same; make a small batch of lower abv beer, with 1 pack of dry yeast then use the cake for your big brew. An easier way of doing it I find.
You said 3 weeks at 12c then a diacetyl rest. Normally this is done somewhere between the middle to the end of fermentation while the yeast is active. I usually start after 5 to 6 days to raise the temperature slowly. You also said carbonate and then lager. I think you want to lager for a month at least, then bottle or keg and carbonate. You don’t want all the **** that drops out during lagering to be in your bottles or keg.
I agree with the others on the crystal. 80% pilsner and 20% Munich or Vienna will be a much nicer beer. If you only have crystal, cut it back to 150 to 200g.

Thank you, this is very helpful.

 

[Cestrian]

No problem! Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.