still doing Brexit?

[dad_of_jon]

There is far too much government and not enough enforcement. Where are all the police to catch mobile phone use whilst driving. :hmm: Nope only after a fatality is the defendant's phone records checked!

Where I am there is gowerton community council - hanging baskets and writing letters to swansea city council. Then there's swansea city council which has its own councillors. Then there are welsh assembly members (AM's) Uk parliament MP's and last of all MEP's. Thats five layers. Some local community councils have successfully abolished themselves. Good for them, Can't see the rest of the turkeys voting for christmas. They are determined to ride the gravy train for as long as they can at our expense.

A local campaign leaflet came thought the door.. The big highlight was she had got a pothole fixed. cue before picture of said person pointing at pothole. cue after picture. no pothole.

me I'd just goto:

https://www.fillthathole.org.uk/

Thank you for your patience and for listening to my rant :)

 

[Saisonator]

If somebody wants to start a thread that will obviously become very divisive. I wish they would personally have the back bone to give their own opinion and not just hang onto the shirt tails of others who they agree with.

 

[Dexter101]

Brexit should happen and should have happened quickly. I voted to remain and nothing that has been said or looks like will happen would change my mind on that. However of the people I know, I am in the minority. The referendum happened and the people were asked. This should have happened. I know people who don't want to leave and who are worried about life after brexit but as is the way with humans, we will always get by.

My problem is that the politicians who caused the people to view the EU in such a negative way are the people who will be running the country post brexit. Pretty sure people will see the problems we have in this country are not caused by the EU and only then do I think we will see people wish we were back in.

At the end of the day, there are 9 billion people on the planet, the majority who are very similar. We want a safe and warm home, friends and family around us and the time to have fun and smile together.

It is the extreme views of some, the greed of others and the inability for countries to work together for the good of all that has meant we are in the situation we are in today. People have solid gold toilets made whilst others are having their homes destroyed in the rainforest, the sea is full of plastic and the people that could make the difference are just interested in making their already brimming bank accounts even fuller.

 

[Gunge]

Can't see the rest of the turkeys voting for christmas. They are determined to ride the gravy train for as long as they can at our expense.

Tony "what I would say" Blair is all for the EU. If there was only one thing to convince anyone who doubts that we're better off out, he is it.

 

[Saisonator]

Brexit should happen and should have happened quickly. I voted to remain and nothing that has been said or looks like will happen would change my mind on that. However of the people I know, I am in the minority. The referendum happened and the people were asked. This should have happened. I know people who don't want to leave and who are worried about life after brexit but as is the way with humans, we will always get by.

My problem is that the politicians who caused the people to view the EU in such a negative way are the people who will be running the country post brexit. Pretty sure people will see the problems we have in this country are not caused by the EU and only then do I think we will see people wish we were back in.

At the end of the day, there are 9 billion people on the planet, the majority who are very similar. We want a safe and warm home, friends and family around us and the time to have fun and smile together.

It is the extreme views of some, the greed of others and the inability for countries to work together for the good of all that has meant we are in the situation we are in today. People have solid gold toilets made whilst others are having their homes destroyed in the rainforest, the sea is full of plastic and the people that could make the difference are just interested in making their already brimming bank accounts even fuller.

I voted remain and my view pretty much mirrors yours, although I have deep reservations about the creeping superstate issues.
The problem is politicians have told us their hands are tied over and over again due to the EU, why are they so surprised when the public vote to untie them?

 

[chthon]

The problem is politicians have told us their hands are tied over and over again due to the EU, why are they so surprised when the public vote to untie them?

That is because they let it. They should do much more to make the European Parliament move. It is a nice scapegoat, but the European Parliament is an extension of the national political parties. If they don't move, nobody does anything.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

If somebody wants to start a thread that will obviously become very divisive. I wish they would personally have the back bone to give their own opinion and not just hang onto the shirt tails of others who they agree with.

Is that your, a bit (unnecessarily?) personal, Christmas wish?

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

Hard to know where to start.....

How about a question or two?

1. What was Brexit intended to deliver?
2. Do we think that 'mission' is likely to be successful?

I haven't seen a coherent answer to either.

I fear the direction Cameron has taken society.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

I'll say a bit more, because I've been prodded a bit.

I've asked (above) if anyone can summarise - perhaps boiling down to a range of policy headings - why we're doing this, and why it'll be better for the majority of us afterwards (and therefore worth doing).

I'd also add that I personally believe that it's a round world - and maybe it shouldn't be just about what's right for us. Given the fluid and dominant nature of business interests (i.e. globalisation, mass automated industrialisation), all this blue passport pseudo-patriotism nonsense is just fluff.

Whether you accept the last point is not my business really. My main point is, essentially, one that I've not seen carefully, thoughtfully and persuasively answered by anyone in support of Brexit.

I think our society is going to be (is being) fundamentally damaged by this folly.


Just my opinion, of course.

 

[dad_of_jon]

It can be hard to express a proper viewpoint on a forum with supporting arguments without a post ending up like 'war & peace' and a shortened summary can often leave valid info out. :hmm:

For me it's less layers of government. Each layer needs to be paid for, by us. We have too many.
As for a personal peeve of mine I'd like to know who was responsible for taking alcohol out of deodorant as the alcohol free substitute really makes me itch! grrr! :-(

 

[Gunge]

I've asked (above) if anyone can summarise - perhaps boiling down to a range of policy headings - why we're doing this, and why it'll be better for the majority of us afterwards (and therefore worth doing).

Well we're all familiar with the policies and why the majority voted for them - there's no need to keep revisiting them, just get on with the job. Ought to have been done and dusted ages ago.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

Strikes me that it might be more complicated than you'd like it to be. Either that, or the party that triggered this debacle doesn't know what to do...or is having second thoughts. I'm struggling to understand why you might think it would be quick.

And we're still not much further ahead in terms of the "why" argument, beyond slogans.

In response to DofJ - fair point. So informed Brexiters can point us to their fact checked sources, so we can read up for ourselves. I'd settle for that.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

I worry that the fractures in society that are being exploited (for self gain, by the media, and by russian trolls) will never be repairable.

I suspect the home brew community will manage to get back on track. :)

 

[dad_of_jon]

I worry that the fractures in society that are being exploited (for self gain, by the media, and by russian trolls) will never be repairable.

I suspect the home brew community will manage to get back on track. :)

yup don't worry just get another brew on. :thumb:

 

[Dexter101]

Didnt want to start a new thread about this but why are we going back to blue passports post brexit!

Why dont we go for a new colour, to mark a forward step. Going bqck to blue just makes me feel like we are trying to revert back to the "good old days" when "britain was great"

Typical politicians, no forward thinking.

 

[terrym]

Didnt want to start a new thread about this but why are we going back to blue passports post brexit!

Why dont we go for a new colour, to mark a forward step. Going bqck to blue just makes me feel like we are trying to revert back to the "good old days" when "britain was great"

Typical politicians, no forward thinking.

So I suppose alternative colours could be
- black for the Remainers who wanted us to stay in the EU and will never give up telling us that is what they wanted
- white for those Brexiteers who think we have given away too much in the negotiations
- yellow same as white
- brown for those who think the s**t will hit the fan after we leave
- green to align us with our colonial cousins over the Atlantic or in honour of William Blake's poem
- red because its the colour of London buses
- red, white and blue to match the Union Jack
There must be more.
Personally I like blue, always did.
Anyway it's what's inside it that really matters :thumb:

 

[Thumper]

Didnt want to start a new thread about this but why are we going back to blue passports post brexit!

Why dont we go for a new colour, to mark a forward step. Going bqck to blue just makes me feel like we are trying to revert back to the "good old days" when "britain was great"

Typical politicians, no forward thinking.

If we wanted blue passports, why didn't we just have them while we were in the EU? We could have. There's no rule governing the colour of member's passports.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

Exactly. We could have had blue passports already, if it was that important. However, we're now talking about the colour of passports, which is probably the point, isn't it? Distraction as a means of making it (temporarily) off a rocky peg.

Brexit is unlikely to solve the problems we set for ourselves. Trade and the economy will suffer - there is a large body of professional opinion which can make a cogent argument for that.

Immigration (what a lot of people were voting to reduce/eliminate) will not be managed in such a way that it delivers outcomes that materially affect many of the people who voted for Brexit. If people are wishing to hear fewer Polish voices in their local Lidl, then I suspect that they're not going to get the Brexit they wanted. If they want to see fewer Muslims (and in that group, some people will simply conflate all black or asiatic faces), then, again, it's not going to be what you wanted.

If you wanted something that distributes the nations finances this way rather than 'that way', then you've got to appreciate that we're likely to experience a net deficit as a result of exit. Not a gain.

If you think the UK was fettered by EU regulation and a white charger of innovation and freedom will re-energise our industry, think again, and check the facts, not the slogans.

All the info is out there. We're going to lose out.

 

[foxy]

How does anyone know the outcome of Brexit? Cherry picking an old FT post doesn't give sound evidence.

 

[Dexter101]

So I suppose alternative colours could be
- black for the Remainers who wanted us to stay in the EU and will never give up telling us that is what they wanted
- white for those Brexiteers who think we have given away too much in the negotiations
- yellow same as white
- brown for those who think the s**t will hit the fan after we leave
- green to align us with our colonial cousins over the Atlantic or in honour of William Blake's poem
- red because its the colour of London buses
- red, white and blue to match the Union Jack
There must be more.
Personally I like blue, always did.
Anyway it's what's inside it that really matters :thumb:

No, thats my point, we need to move forward as a country and not keep bringing about brexit divides. The red passport has been around for almost 30 years, under 30s were a largely remain vote and it just seems like the government trying to go back to the good old days for the older voters. Progress and improve should be the main aim.

I dont actually care what colour the passport is, its the feeling of what they are doing that i dislike