Starter or no starter

[Braufather]

I’ve tended recently to always use a start per when using liquid yeast but as I’m out of dry malt and short on time I’d not this time.

it wyeast ESB, best before 6 June and the wort will only be 1046. I figure it il be fine. sure, aren't the smack packs sort of vitality starters anyway?

But its been a while since I’ve pitched direct so I guess just looking for some reassurance that people do this regularly with no problems.

 

[Cwrw666]

I thought smack packs were self contained starters. Otherwise what's the point of them?
Only ever used one once and just followed the instructions. Worked fine.

 

[Stu's Brews]

I thought smack packs were self contained starters. Otherwise what's the point of them?
Only ever used one once and just followed the instructions. Worked fine.

Smack packs are a starter in themselves; but they may not result in the optimal amount of yeast for your brew. Nominally they will have 100billion yeast cells (but may be lower depending on age of the pack) which often is less then you ideally want for a 20-litre batch. So using an additional starter can be necessary to grow additional yeast cells.

 

[AJA]

You are fine without a starter in this situation.
Bigger gravity, volume, pitching cold, or old yeast will benefit from a starter.

 

[Braufather]

Brewers fiend calculator estimated i am well short, which made me think twice.

 

[LeeH]

I’ve checked 2 calcs and both say way short.

Only pitched direct once, it was a smack pack and it fermented out OK.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Brewers fiend calculator estimated i am well short, which made me think twice.

This is the calculator I use: Homebrew Dad's Online Yeast Starter Calculator

Assuming you are doing a 20L batch then with a 1.046 OG you should need 172billion yeast cells (pitching at 0.75million cells/ml), so your smack pack doesn't quite get you there.

You'll probably ferment out fine, but it runs the risk of slightly lower attenuation and more ester and higher (fusel) alcohol production than you would ideally like. When the ratio of sugar to yeast is high, the yeast chomp through at a faster rate which is what causes more ester / higher alcohol generation. If you pitch more yeast (i.e. reducing the ratio of sugar to yeast) it behaves more slowly giving you a 'cleaner' fermentation.

https://www.precisionfermentation.com/blog/yeast-pitching-rates-beer-fermentation/
Also note that as your Smack Pack is presumably 2 months old (production date is normally 6 months ahead of best before date) then your viability is actually only 55%, so you'll likely only get 55 billion cells from that.

 

[Braufather]

This is the calculator I use: Homebrew Dad's Online Yeast Starter Calculator

Assuming you are doing a 20L batch then with a 1.046 OG you should need 172billion yeast cells (pitching at 0.75million cells/ml), so your smack pack doesn't quite get you there.

You'll probably ferment out fine, but it runs the risk of slightly lower attenuation and more ester and higher (fusel) alcohol production than you would ideally like. When the ratio of sugar to yeast is high, the yeast chomp through at a faster rate which is what causes more ester / higher alcohol generation. If you pitch more yeast (i.e. reducing the ratio of sugar to yeast) it behaves more slowly giving you a 'cleaner' fermentation.

https://www.precisionfermentation.com/blog/yeast-pitching-rates-beer-fermentation/
Also note that as your Smack Pack is presumably 2 months old (production date is normally 6 months ahead of best before date) then your viability is actually only 55%, so you'll likely only get 55 billion cells from that.

Some of that might be compensated by the vitality element maybe?

 

[Stu's Brews]

Some of that might be compensated by the vitality element maybe?

Vitality and viability are different things. Vitality is essentially how strong and healthy the yeast is and viability is how much of it is actually alive. So even if you have 100% vitality then low viability could be problematic and vice versa. Essentially, you want to be pitching yeast at the correct rate that is high in both vitality and viability.

Yeast viability: refers to the percentage of viable cells in a population. The percentage of dead cells can be determined using either brightfield or fluorescent dyes. The ability of a cell to divide is also sometimes used as an assessment of viability.

Yeast vitality: refers to the activity or metabolism of the cell. Yeast vitality has been linked to fermentation performance. Vitality can be assessed using a variety of methods; examples include vital dyes, measure of intracellular pH, production of CO2, consumption of sugars and oxygen.

https://www.probrewer.com/library/y...ity: refers to the,or metabolism of the cell.

 

[Braufather]

Yes, I think the logic is the smack crack creates a small vitality starter. ( as opposed to increasing head count) Not sure how effective though

 

[Cwrw666]

Personally I'd never use one again just because of the price of the things. The one time I used one it cost as much as all the rest of the ingredients.

 

[clib]

It'll work without a starter but it will be better with a starter. A quicjker start and probably a more vigorous fermentation. You don't know the health of the yeast in the pack simply by the date.

Liquid yeast works out cheap if you split starters and or harvest yeast from brews. 3 brews means about 3 quid a brew. 10 brews means about 80p a brew. I sometimes use the dregs of bottles of homebrew to make starters. Currently making a bitter with Wyeast 1318 from a bottle of beer sent to me by a home brewer. Very healthy starter, pitched at bed time, thick krausen at breakfast time. Making a starter is no more hassle than making a cup of tea.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Personally I'd never use one again just because of the price of the things. The one time I used one it cost as much as all the rest of the ingredients.

A starter works out cheaper (ignoring the costs of the equipment needed) than pitching two packets of liquid yeast, which is what is really needed for this brew for it to perform at it's best.

I reckon it costs me roughly £1 in DME to make a starter versus ~£9 for an additional liquid yeast pack.

Obviously it is more expensive than just pitching one packet of yeast without a starter, but that then runs the aforementioned risks regarding 'poor' fermentation.