Stalled Saison - Advice please…

[Agentgonzo]

I did a Saison recently (different yeast) and it took a month of slow bubbling to finish after the initial krausen.

3 weeks for me. CML wallonia

 

[TrubWolf]

An update if anyone is interested:
After 17days, fermentation pretty much stopped with a Gravity of 1033 (OG=1062 & target is 1013ish), checked the yeast dump port and there was no yeast to dump.
Decided enough was enough and pitched 11g dried Lallemand “Belle Saison”. Seems to be fermenting normally again now!

 

[dmtaylor]

An update if anyone is interested:
After 17days, fermentation pretty much stopped with a Gravity of 1033 (OG=1062 & target is 1013ish), checked the yeast dump port and there was no yeast to dump.
Decided enough was enough and pitched 11g dried Lallemand “Belle Saison”. Seems to be fermenting normally again now!

I've done the Belle thing at least twice now. Good idea, it works well.

 

[Sadfield]

Good to see its going again.

I'm less inclined to think this is the classic Dupont stall, though. More a classic case of under-pitching. How much yeast did you pitch into what batch size? How old was it and did you make a starter?

(OG=1062 & target is 1013ish)

There's also something wrong with the recipe if its a clone of Dupont. Both the predicted OG and FG are way too high. It should be 1.054 and hitting 1.003-4.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

3 weeks for me. CML wallonia

That's the only cml yeast I've been disappointed with, I brewed a dark saison and though drinkable was very bland.

 

[SMP Brewery]

That's the only cml yeast I've been disappointed with, I brewed a dark saison and though drinkable was very bland.

Same here I thought mine was bland too, went back to their own Saison for the next one which I think was Belle Saison ( but they don’t seem to sell it now) and has a big orange flavour.

 

[Sadfield]

CML Wallonia and Belle Saison are surely the same, no? Citrusy Saison similar to WLP590 French Saison.

 

[Jim Brewster]

An update if anyone is interested:
After 17days, fermentation pretty much stopped with a Gravity of 1033 (OG=1062 & target is 1013ish), checked the yeast dump port and there was no yeast to dump.
Decided enough was enough and pitched 11g dried Lallemand “Belle Saison”. Seems to be fermenting normally again now!

Shouldn't affect the flavour too much now at this stage, I have heard that most of the yeast character is expressed early on in the fermentation

 

[JockyBrewer]

Wyeast 3724 and White Labs 565 are somewhat famed for their 'stall'. The key that some people have found is to not use an airlock until the fermentation starts to slow. It's something about the yeast not liking too much CO2 during fermentation.

Either having the lid cracked open or just use a bit of foil instead of the bung and airlock seems to resolve the issue - I've used them many times this way and never had the stall.

Bear in mind that whatever Dupont currently uses is not going to be exactly the same as the Wyeast/White Labs yeasts - it has likely evolved/adapted to their brewery, and they may have other handling steps we don't see.

 

[TrubWolf]

Good to see its going again.

I'm less inclined to think this is the classic Dupont stall, though. More a classic case of under-pitching. How much yeast did you pitch into what batch size? How old was it and did you make a starter?


There's also something wrong with the recipe if it’s a clone of Dupont. Both the predicted OG and FG are way too high. It should be 1.054 and hitting 1.003-4.

@Sadfield - I’m inclined to agree - It is a 19L batch and I used a liquid Wyeast 3724 yeast bag. It did inflate but not as much as other liquid yeasts I had used. It had been stored at the bottom of the fridge at 4C for about 8weeks.
Where did you get the Gravity specs from?
I found 2 independent recipes (MM & 200 Clone brews) and both gave an OG=1065 & FG~1013. However mine is now at 1010 and hasn’t stopped yet

 

[Sadfield]

Where did you get the Gravity specs from?

Multiple sources. I'd trust the one in this though as the author has been to the brewery and spoken to the brewer.

Another example here lists its OG as 13 Plato (c1.053)
http://www.brusselsbeerchallenge.com/nl/resultaten/2020/9457-saison-dupont-dry-hop-2/
Stylistically an FG of 1.013 is just wrong and unachievable using a diastatic Saison yeast.

Saison Dupont is made from 100% Pilsner Malt, but I've seen recipes with caramalts, vienna and munich malts. There are so many terrible recipes online. And not just for Dupont.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I've never had a saison made with either the common 'French' or 'Belgian' strains come in at over 1.006.

For one thing they're diastatic yeasts and will chew their way through everything, and secondly, while it might be hard to define what 'saison' is, I can safely say that a saison should be dry!

 

[TrubWolf]

Interestingly @Sadfield @JockyBrewer the DuPont website suggests they chill the fermentation to stop it and thereby retain some level of sugars before maturing. I guess the gravity then drops right down in the bottle…

 

[Sadfield]

That could possibly be to ensure there's some yeast activity in the maturation tank for dry hopping or to deal with any oxygen picked up during transfer.

 

[TrubWolf]

Please let us know how the beer turns out @TrubWolf. I’m a big fan of Saison Dupont!

Turned out surprisingly well (with a few caveats)…
The FG ended up at 1003 so about 8% abv rather than 6.7% intended.
I never got around to bottling it but rather kept it in a pressurised Corni Keg and drank most at Christmas. It was similar to original style and very drinkable if a little hazy. After leaving it then till yesterday I tried it again and it is very crisp and a very good likeness.

 

[Wynne]

Glad it turned out well - serving from fermenter has much to commend it!