Stalled Saison - Advice please…

[TrubWolf]

Hello - I have just tried my first Saison and everything was going so well…
It’s a clone recipe for Saison DuPont using Wyeast-7423 which I brewed 5 days ago. I pitched the yeast at 26C with an OG=1062 and a day later it was going like the clappers at which point I turned the temperature up to 29C. By the end of the second day in the FV the fermentation had slowed to a crawl but seemed to be ticking along. Today (day -5) it bubbles about once every 10s so I took a hydrometer reading of 1046.
I have read a few threads on here and advice ranges from give it time, add more yeast, stir the yeast or even open fermentation to the air (I have an airlock). However my main concern is the current gravity which still seems high.
Has anyone had a similar experience and what would you recommend?
Thanks,
Chris

 

[Clint]

Leave it and check on day 12. If its below 1010 I'd say its getting there. I'd look at what attenuation your yeast is good for,recipe,dependant, and judge it.
In my experience SAISON yeast is high attenuation, dropping to low(100x) levels,making very dry (nice) beer.
Why put it to 29c?

 

[YeastFace]

This strain is famous for its "stall", so I'd suggest not to worry.

What is the temp of the fermenting wort now? What are you fermenting in?

 

[TrubWolf]

Leave it and check on day 12. If its below 1010 I'd say its getting there. I'd look at what attenuation your yeast is good for,recipe,dependant, and judge it.
In my experience SAISON yeast is high attenuation, dropping to low(100x) levels,making very dry (nice) beer.
Why put it to 29c?

Thanks I will monitor gravity. The recipe recomended 27C and the wyeast3724 has a max recommended temp of 32C. I thought I might get more of those funky flavours at 29C.

 

[TrubWolf]

This strain is famous for its "stall", so I'd suggest not to worry.

What is the temp of the fermenting wort now? What are you fermenting in?

Thanks - Temperature is still 29C and fermenting in a Ss brew tech Conical FV. I notice there is no yeast floating on the surface and was wondering if it had settled down at the dump port…

 

[YeastFace]

Does that have the domed lid? Can you release some of the head pressure through the PRV?

@dmtaylor's spreadsheet also seems to suggest an open ferment is best as maybe needs an oxygen source to help it finish out? I think, maybe interpreting it wrong so have tagged David.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Can you release some of the head pressure through the PRV?

They said they had an airlock. I don't think there is any pressure to release

 

[YeastFace]

Didn't see that bit, but didn't mean they were pressure fermenting.

I still get a fair bit of head (or top?) pressure in my Brewbucket with the domed lid (which comes with the conical) with a blow off tube or or airlock.

If it's the same lid it has a built-in PRV (albeit only set to 3 or so psi), so suggestion was to let off some off that pressure for a pernickety yeast which allegedly doesn't like any pressure.

 

[Sadfield]

Duponts FVs aren't open. To get an idea of the issue with Dupont yeast. Dupont ferment 12000L in flat bottomed fermenters where the depth of wort is only 1-1.2m. A 25-50L homebrew batch in a conical at say, a third to a half that depth, is a massive difference in hydrostatic pressure. It's this hydrostatic pressure that keeps carbon dioxide dissolved in solution, which in turn limits yeast growth. Less yeast growth, less esters, slower fermentation. Which is why pressure fermentation or colder temperatures result in cleaner beer.

Removing any back pressure from an airlock will have a negligible benefit, and gentle rousing might knock some Co2 out, but time is the only option.

 

[dmtaylor]

It needs 3 more weeks. All you need is patience and time.

 

[YeastFace]

The Doug Prior video is very interesting.



Might ferment some saison in a very large lunchbox.

 

[TrubWolf]

Thanks everyone for your informative posts
I’ve only really brewed traditional ales and IPAs previously, so was after a bit of reassurance.
Time it is then!

 

[Wynne]

Please let us know how the beer turns out @TrubWolf. I’m a big fan of Saison Dupont!

 

[Sadfield]

Personally, I'm not convinced that forcing upward temperature during early vigorous fermention, is a good idea. Fermentation is exothermic anyway, so let it happen in a natural way that the yeast is happy with.

 

[peebee]

I've heard rumours the "Dupont" yeast was originally a wine yeast whereas many other so-called Saison yeasts are "diastaticus" variants (they can convert starches and long-chain dextrin to simple sugars to ferment them - an "infection" by many brewers' standards!). But there's so much rumour attached to beer yeasts, it's difficult to know what to believe. To perpetuate those rumours (), if a wine yeast it might explain the slow-down as the yeast if faced with fermenting maltose, not sucrose?

Anyhow, I remember making Saison and you do get recommended to ramp the heat up once fermenting. Something to do with encouraging "spicy" flavours. Never got chance to ramp up the temperature much, but I was using one of the "diastaticus" variants, not "Dupont". Went down to FG 0.997! Very "refreshing"!

Hold on for the long steady ferment if that's what others are saying.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I've heard rumours the "Dupont" yeast was originally a wine yeast whereas many other so-called Saison yeasts are "diastaticus" variants (they can convert starches and long-chain dextrin to simple sugars to ferment them - an "infection" by many brewers' standards!). But there's so much rumour attached to beer yeasts, it's difficult to know what to believe. To perpetuate those rumours (), if a wine yeast it might explain the slow-down as the yeast if faced with fermenting maltose, not sucrose?

Anyhow, I remember making Saison and you do get recommended to ramp the heat up once fermenting. Something to do with encouraging "spicy" flavours. Never got chance to ramp up the temperature much, but I was using one of the "diastaticus" variants, not "Dupont". Went down to FG 0.997! Very "refreshing"!

Hold on for the long steady ferment if that's what others are saying.

My latest one fermented at about 24. I'm thinking of pushing it up to 28 next time.

 

[Sadfield]

The 'Dupont' yeast used, is var. Diastaticus, though. Rumour is, it still stalled.

If we look at the history of brewing, tall thin fermenters with a cone at the bottom, are a very recent introduction. Brewers yeasts however have gone through hundreds of years of genetic selection in shallow, flat-bottomed vessels.

If we have hundreds of years, the available yeasts might adapt to the vessels we are sold.

 

[Sadfield]

Might ferment some saison in a very large lunchbox.

I've had the epiphany that most beers should be fermented this way, it's what most yeasts have been selected to do.

 

[Twostage]

I did a Saison recently (different yeast) and it took a month of slow bubbling to finish after the initial krausen.

 

[TrubWolf]

After watching the YouTube video from @YeastFace I upped the temp to 30C and it has definitely picked up the pace!