Solving solvent flavours

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dreaddan

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So after entering national homebrew competition and getting slight lower than I expected
However the judges highlighted solvent flavours, which is odd - the beer I sent was bitter mango but other beers have had a taste that I couldn't put my finger on.
Looking into solvent flavours it is caused by hot fermentation, which is odd as I set my inkbird to 19 or 20 deg for fermentation. I don't allways do a dyactal rest.

Is there anything else I should look for?
 
So after entering national homebrew competition and getting slight lower than I expected
However the judges highlighted solvent flavours, which is odd - the beer I sent was bitter mango but other beers have had a taste that I couldn't put my finger on.
Looking into solvent flavours it is caused by hot fermentation, which is odd as I set my inkbird to 19 or 20 deg for fermentation. I don't allways do a dyactal rest.

Is there anything else I should look for?

If it is 'band-aid' or 'medicinal' in flavour then it could be caused by chlorophenols that are formed as a result of chlorine or chloramine reacting with polyphenols.

Two places chlorine or chloramine could be coming from; your source water (if using tap water, do you treat it with a Campden tablet to remove the chlorine/chloramine?) or your sanitiser (are you using a chlorine-based sanitiser that requires thorough rinsing after application?).

If it's neither of those and it's a fermenation issue, then the other cause (aside from temperature) would be insufficient quantity of yeast which may be causing a too rapid initial fermentation and subsequently generation of fusel alcohols, which can sometimes be described as 'solventy'.
 
Remember that actual fermentation temperature can be a lot higher than the temperature set on your inkbird.

I also agree with Stu as I used to experience a weird taste in my beers which seems to have been solved by treating my water with a Campden tablet. The chlorine/chloramine levels in my water seem to vary greatly and some days I can smell a heavy chlorine smell when I run the tap - I don't brew on those days!
 
Odd, I thought I'd posted this earlier but it's still in my edit box:

I use bottled water as its cheap
enough and saves having to use Campden etc. I use chem San but rince that 99% of the time as im paranoid..

I think it's fusel alcohol, rather than anything else.
I use the recommended amount of year brewfather recommends so it shouldn't be that - but could be.
I do wonder if im I'm using something else that's leaching something in the process..
I think I'm going to try to try soaking my fermenter with water for a week to make sure the tap/washer isn't causing an issue.

I've added a thermowell to my fermenter to help as I don't fully trust the temp difference between the wall of ther fermenter - previously I recorded a 1deg difference between the center and the wall so used that as a gauge.

I'm waiting for the current batch to complete conditioning to see if that has helped.
 
The trouble is that fermentation increases the temperature and if the fridge is not cooling it enough it can runaway by 3 to 4 degrees and if you have pitched slightly higher than normal as we do sometimes through maybe wanting to pitch before going to bed /work etc it can then become 5 or 6 degrees higher than we would ideally like.
this a lift off the tinterweb on fusel to see if it helps to identify if it is that

When ethanol combines with esters, fusel alcohols in beer are formed. These are the longer chain alcohols that get produced when fermenting at higher temperatures. Fusel alcohol is what causes the hot alcohol flavors in beer. These flavours can also be perceived as having a vinous-like spiciness.
 
It's a shame the inkbird app doesn't allow you to store the temp history to have a better look at what went on.

I wonder if I need better fridge control than the ink bird...
 
It's a shame the inkbird app doesn't allow you to store the temp history to have a better look at what went on.

I wonder if I need better fridge control than the ink bird...

Where is your temperature probe installed? There can be significant differences in temperature depending on where it is measured.
 
I would think the Inkbird set up is fine as it is used by many members, you first need to identify what the solvent taste is like and report back to see if it is fusel or something else, it is a shame the judge did not expand on it.
Ps does it taste ok to you and a valid point by Stu where and how is the temp probe attached
 
Where is your temperature probe installed? There can be significant differences in temperature depending on where it is measured.
For this brew it was taped to the side about half way down with some foam insulating it from the air.
Since I have added a thermowell in approx the same place, from memory probbay just above the 4l mark in my 10l fermenter.
 
I would think the Inkbird set up is fine as it is used by many members, you first need to identify what the solvent taste is like and report back to see if it is fusel or something else, it is a shame the judge did not expand on it.
Ps does it taste ok to you and a valid point by Stu where and how is the temp probe attached
It tastes OK, more bitter than I'd like due to the mango.
Previous beers were OK with a little astringent flavour but drinkable.

I've attached (hopefully) the feedback, they have said to loom at the temp control and yeast amount/health.
 

Attachments

  • 000177.pdf
    4.2 MB
Do you use straight bottled water? No salt additions?

The astringency could be from having too high a pH, both at mashing and dry hopping. Too high a pH in finished beer is also problematic in terms of preventing contamination. Something that won't be helped by rinsing away a no rinse sanitiser. Not having the correct minerals in your water will also have an impact on yeast performance.
 
It tastes OK, more bitter than I'd like due to the mango.
Previous beers were OK with a little astringent flavour but drinkable.

I've attached (hopefully) the feedback, they have said to loom at the temp control and yeast amount/health.
Having read the comments from the judges it sounds like the solvent flavours / astringent flavours are very pronounced so would be surprising if you couldn't pick up on it yourself.

Are you serving the beer from a keg or is it bottle conditioned? If you bottled from keg specifically for the competition I'm wondering whether there is something in that process that has exacerbated the issue (would potentially explain why you hadn't picked up on it before the competition).

Might be helpful as well if you can describe your end-to-end brewing process so people can see if there is anything that jumps out as a potential cause. I think over the course of the thread almost every logical root cause has been suggested but there may be something we're missing.
 
Last edited:
I do add calcum cloride and gypsum.
I have got some Epsom salt for my next batch as the pH is a bit hight - it was listed at 5.77 in the comp beer.

I think I'm going to get better scales too as I don't feel mine are good enough at the 1g level.
 
Having read the comments from the judges it sounds like the solvent flavours / astringent flavours are very pronounced so would be surprising if you couldn't pick up on it yourself.

Are you serving the beer from a keg or is it bottle conditioned? If you bottled from keg specifically for the competition I'm wondering whether there is something in that process that has exacerbated the issue.

Might be helpful as well if you can describe your end-to-end brewing process so people can see if there is anything that jumps out as a potential cause. I think over the course of the thread almost every logical root cause has been suggested but there may be something we're missing.

Maybe my taste buds are shot :)

My general brew day goes like this:

Wash out the brew pot and bag ( I do biab).
Pour water into the pot to heat, i normaly keep 5l for sparging.
Weight out grains
Weigh out water salts and add to the water ( this i sometimes forget and add after the grain)
When water is at strike temp
Add grain to water mixing while I pour in.
Every 10-15 mins stir and check temp - heating if needed. (Occational over heat - add some cold sparge water if its too high)
Heat sparge water
Clean a colander and big bowl
Lift grain bag by hand and leave to drain, squeezing a bit ( with latex style gloves on)
Put bag into colander and slowly pour the sparge water on.
Turn pot up to boil
Squeeze bag
Add run off into pot
Wait for hot break
Clean up mess left on the counter and wash the bag, colander and bowl.

Measure boil additions (hops) in clean but not sanitised small bowls.

Add additions direct to pot when needed.

Durining mash, wash and sanitise the chiller coil, fermemter, auto-siphon etc.
Using a clean cloth and star san/chem san at correct rate.
I leave the fermenter full of sanitiser.

15 mins before end of boil add chiller.
At end of boil move pot to by the back door to allow pipes to get to the chiller.
Move pot back to stove when cool.
Empty sanitiser into plastic tub, and rince along with bag.
Transfer wort into bag in fermenter.
Lift bag out sometimes squeezing ( this is risky, I wash but don't allways I sanitise my hands here).
Add yeast, closing fermenter and adding to the fridge.

Lots of cleaning at this stage.

Bottle prep goes one of 2 ways either I prep days before and cap with proper caps or the plastic bottle savers I've now got or I'll prep just before and cover with plastic wrap.

If the bottles are new or heavy soiled I'll clean with vwp and a bottle brush and rince twice. If not I'll use chem San and bottle brush and will rince.

Botteling.
Sanitise the botteling wand and a cloth.
Will empty then attach to the tap.
Bottle caps are sat in chem san.
Bottles are capped when full.

Dry hopping:
Hops are weighed in Clean but not sanitised bowls.
Hop socks are sanitised and rinced.

Carbination:
I used to boil water and mix the tabel sugar the add to the fermenter 30mins before botteling
Now I inject 10mm into each bottle before filling.

Hopefully that all makes sense, bar some typos from being on my mobile and some dyslexia spelling oddness :)
 
The more I think of it, I'm sure it's temp related.
I know my process isn't 100%..
I'm sure I've noticed this since I've moved from 5l to 10l.
I did a split batch recently so it will be interesting to see how they turn out...
 
The more I think of it, I'm sure it's temp related.
I know my process isn't 100%..
I'm sure I've noticed this since I've moved from 5l to 10l.
I did a split batch recently so it will be interesting to see how they turn out...

The only things that jump out from your process would be:

1. What temperature are you sparging at?
2. Perhaps don't squeeze the bag (I'm not a BIAB brewer though so could be an old wives tail that it can cause astringency).
3. When rinsing are you using tap water? It's possible you are introducing some chlorine there. You don't actually need to rinse ChemSan.
 

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