Sodium Percarbonate as a no rinse steriliser?

[davidgrace]

I have always used Sodium Percarbonate as a no rinse steriliser with no bad results. Today, I was informed that this is only a cleaner. In order to sanitise I must use Starsan. Any thoughts on this?

 

[MyQul]

You dont HAVE to use starsan to sanitise. There are a number of options, including simple boiling water

 

[kelper]

"Sodium percarbonate is effective as a disinfectant on both bacteria and virus"

 

[Chippy_Tea]

In order to sanitise I must use Starsan. Any thoughts on this?

Here is a list of cleaners and sterilsers with dilution rates and breif descriptions of uses to use as a guide for any members looking for alternative cleaners or sterilisers.

This is an old post and was not posted by me, be careful out there!

As with all Cleaners and sterilisers Precautions must be taken. Read the instructions, Wear rubber gloves in some cases thick heavy duty rubber gloves, wear eye protection, and don't spill them on any surface you may want to keep looking nice. And most importantly Keep out of reach of children!

Washing Soda 2 tablespoons per Litre
Also known as Sodium Carbonate. The crystals are dissolved in hot water and the equipment left to soak for about 20 minutes. Rinse equipment thoroughly after use. Not as effective as Caustic Soda and no sterilising power.


OxyClean 1 Scoop per 10 litre for light cleaning, 1 scoop per 2.5 litre for heavy cleaning.
Good all purpose cleaner with no sterilising powers. Best mixed with warm to hot water. Cleaning action lasts for 6 hrs. Do not store mixed solution in sealed bottles, the oxygen released will cause it to pop. Will need rinsing prior to sterilising.


Household Bleach 2.5ml per Litre
Can be used diluted with water to clean and sterilise plastic equipment and glass bottles. Thick bleach is better at cleaning as it foams and thin bleach is better at sterilising, Also don't use the fragranced stuff it may leave some flavours in your equipment.
Corrosive to stainless steel if left for any length of time and will also blacken and corrode brass and copper.
Needs thorough rinsing of cleaned items with hot water to remove any taints. Precautions needed when handling are goggles and rubber gloves.


VWP 1/2 teaspoon per Litre
An all purpose chlorine based cleaner/steriliser. Can be mixed to the above ratio in warm water will clean all your homebrewing equipment in around 10 minutes. It WILL release a chlorine based gas and care should be taken not to inhale it when you first add it to your water and any other time. Will need several hot water rinses to remove any taints that may be left. It's known for sticking around inside Fv's etc. Wear gloves and goggles.


Videne 1.25ml per Litre
You need the Antiseptic Solution not the Tincture. This is a No rinse solution at the above rate and is only a steriliser it has no cleaning powers and is Iodophor based. Can be mixed up into spray bottles and stored until it the colour fades, ideally with low alkalinity and Chlorine Free water.


Five Star, Io Star 1.5ml per Litre for a spray on solution.
A product from the USA same principals as Videne but has loads more info on the Fact sheets see Clicky. This sheet gives differing contact times per usage and strengths. But for most home brewers usage this would be the above ratio with 1 min contact time and drain, No need to rinse. Wear gloves and goggles.


Five Star, Star San 1.5ml per Litre
Star San is a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and is also a self foaming sanitizer. It can be applied through a foamer to produce self-adhering sanitizing foam for external sanitation. It is not recommended to use STAR SAN on soft metals because of the acid nature of this product. At the above ratio a 1-2 min contact time is recommended, Star san is a no rinse sanitiser. Wear gloves and goggles.


Star San 1.5ml per Litre
Another “terminal disinfectantâ based on phosphoric acid which again doesn't need rinsing, this product is diluted with water and may be sprayed on items or just used as a rinse. The solution may be re-used as long as the pH stays below about 3.0. Not suitable for dilution with hard water as the alkalinity will partly neutralise the acid causing it to be ineffective. Precautions, use goggles and rubber gloves when handling the concentrated product.


Antiformin S 1-2% solution in cold Water
This product is a caustic based cleaner with an added chlorine donor. It comes supplied in liquid form and will thoroughly clean equipment whilst being effective against most bacteria. This is not corrosive to stainless steel when used at the recommended dilution and rinsed with hot water. But is corrosive to Aluminium and Zinc. Needs thorough rinsing after use. Precautions needed when handing are goggles and rubber gloves.


Caustic Soda 25 gram per Litre
Also known as Sodium Hydroxide, this cheap and powerful cleaner is available in crystal form and may be used for normal cleaning and sterilisation purposes by making up in cold water, or for heavily soiled items and stubborn deposits at 50g per 1L of water. The advantages are a very effective cleaner whilst also providing some degree of sterilising power.
A very thorough rinsing with hot water is necessary after use and this cleaner is strongly corrosive to aluminium, also will leave deposits on vessels when used in areas with very hard water. Precautions needed when handling are goggles and heavy duty rubber gloves, as this product can cause severe burns to skin.


Fam 30 5.5ml per liter
A Iodophor based disinfectant designed for dairy use as a no rinse terminal disinfectant, but also has cleaning powers at the above ratio's. Can be purchased from farm supplies stores and only comes in 5 ltr containers. An alternative to the more nasty Peracetic Acid. Use gloves and goggles


Peracetic Acid 10ml per Litre
This has in recent years become the standard disinfectant for the brewing industry and is a blend of hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid which is extremely effective against a wide range of bacteria. It's supplied as a 5% solution which is diluted with cold water and may be conveniently sprayed on pre-cleaned items. Can be used as a soak solution at the above rate, recommended contact time for soaking is 20 mins but anything over 30 seconds will have worked. Peracetic Acid may be used as a terminal disinfectant¢ immediately prior to use and does not require rinsing. Will not corrode stainless steel. Don't use on Copper or Zinc. No cleaning power. Extremely harmful to skin. Precautions needed are goggles and heavy duty rubber gloves strongly recommended. This is also a mucosal irritant, do not inhale, use in a very well ventilated area, the vapours alone will make your eyes stream.

 

[davidgrace]

You dont HAVE to use starsan to sanitise. There are a number of options, including simple boiling water

Sorry, my post was misleading. I should have written that I need to use something like Starsan. The point of my post concerns Sodium Percarbonate can it be used as a no rinse sanitiser.

 

[simon12]

It seems to be sold as a no rinse sanitiser, John palmer seems to say you should rinse it see http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/brewing-preperations/sanitation/cleaning-products

 

[Hoppyland]

I use percarbonate as a cleaner, but would always rinse it. It's not like bleach, in that it doesn't leave anything hugely nasty like chlorine hanging around, but it degrades to sodium carbonate (aka washing soda). This is quite strongly alkaline and can be caustic at high concentrations (although not in the same league as sodium hydroxide, or caustic soda). I'm not a chemist, but I reckon you could end up with a significant hit of carbonate ions in your beer (esp if you left the residue in the bottles whilst bottling). Personally I always give a quick rinse - without being obsessively thorough.

 

[davidgrace]

I am relatively new to homebrew but have now done about 25 brews using percarbonate with no rinsing. All my brews have turned out fine so I have been thrown by all the comments that say percarbonate is only a cleaner and I must rinse. I always apply percarbonate twice to all equipment and maybe that is why I have never had a bad brew.

 

[kelper]

I reckon all sanitisers are 'no rinse' if you empty your vessels. Take an FV for example, if you sanitise it and then empty it, how much sanitiser is left in proportion to the volume you will add? Its got to be a tiny fraction. Any organic matter will consume the remaining chlorine or other oxidiser. This assumes you dilute the sanitiser to recommended rates.

 

[Hoppyland]

I am relatively new to homebrew but have now done about 25 brews using percarbonate with no rinsing. All my brews have turned out fine so I have been thrown by all the comments that say percarbonate is only a cleaner and I must rinse. I always apply percarbonate twice to all equipment and maybe that is why I have never had a bad brew.

As I say, percarbonate is a pretty benign beast compared to, say, bleach, where I think you would risk getting a very unpleasant tang to your beer without rinsing. So, yes, I'm not surprised that your beers turn out fine. Also, there's nothing inherently toxic about sodium carbonate - so the diluted residue shouldn't be a health problem. I'd still rinse it, though! (Especially in bottles). Why? Because I don't want a shed load of carbonate ions in my beer - I reckon it will have an effect, even if subtle.
So basically, your beer might be fine - but possibly a wee bit better if you rinsed the percarbonate residue. As stated, I'm not a chemist & there's likely to be much better advice on here than mine.

 

[Hoppyland]

I reckon all sanitisers are 'no rinse' if you empty your vessels. Take an FV for example, if you sanitise it and then empty it, how much sanitiser is left in proportion to the volume you will add?

Well, maybe. Perhaps not so obvious, though, if you take a 500ml bottle as an example instead of a FV. A lot of internal surface area compared to the capacity.

 

[kelper]

If you invert a 500ml bottle for a few minutes, how much liquid remains? I bet it's less than a quarter of a teaspoon, 2ml at most. So, any steriliser will be diluted by a ratio of 250:1

 

[strange-steve]

If you invert a 500ml bottle for a few minutes, how much liquid remains? I bet it's less than a quarter of a teaspoon, 2ml at most. So, any steriliser will be diluted by a ratio of 250:1

Depending on the sanitiser in question that might be enough to cause off flavours. Chlorophenols have a taste threshold in the low ppb.

 

[kelper]

So, what makes 'no rinse' sanitisers different? I would have to agree with you about the chlorophenols. I give my kit a quick sluice with tap water after sanitising but not obsessively. But my experience is in public health rather than brewing.

 

[strange-steve]

So, what makes 'no rinse' sanitisers different?

I suppose primarily they don't contain chlorine to react with yeast phenols. Or anything else that'll provide off flavours.

 

[Mavroz]

I use percarbonate for cleaning and soaking. This is always rinsed then the items are sanitised with Starsan.

If left without rinsing percarbonate leaves a white chalky residue on anything that has been cleaned with it when dry.

Doubt this residue is harmful but I don't particularly want it in any of my brews or beers.

 

[kelper]

I suppose primarily they don't contain chlorine to react with yeast phenols. Or anything else that'll provide off flavours.

Thanks Steve. I will be more thorough in my rinsing since I use a chlorine-based sanitiser.

 

[110ben]

I do the same as Mavroz Soak with percarbonate then quick rinse and starsan.
Never an issue

 

[Festival Man]

I have always used Sodium Percarbonate as a no rinse steriliser with no bad results. Today, I was informed that this is only a cleaner. In order to sanitise I must use Starsan. Any thoughts on this?

The reason why of the rinse is because of the presence of chalk that would otherwise be present in your beer.

 

[Kveik Freak]

I have always used Sodium Percarbonate as a no rinse steriliser with no bad results. Today, I was informed that this is only a cleaner. In order to sanitise I must use Starsan. Any thoughts on this?

I've been using thin bleach, water and vinegar to great effect. I've only had contamination when I've been trying to sample the wort after the krausen has fallen and when I've had to leave the beer in an imperfectly sealed fermenter for a long time. I've used it as a no-rinse sterisliser and have had no issue with chlorine related off flavours. I might try the B&M oxy stuff if I shift over to kegs since the chemical reaction is very good at cutting through crud and scouring out wee crevices.

It's dirt cheap and you can literally make it by the bucket. Put 25ml thin bleach in 25L water, stir well, add 25ml vinegar. Then you get a saturated solution of chlorine that'll murder just about anything given a 30s contact time. It's potent for 2-4 hours left open to the air. In a sealed container it can last a long time.

As long as its sterilising your gear and not tainting your product then I don't see what's wrong with your method. Rock on!

WARNING - If you are considering using the above method please read post #21 first - C_T.