Shortest boil time?

[HoppyTommy]

Interesting query that I'm sure someone will answer instantly....

I was keenly showing off my new Grainfather to a friend and explaining the stages eg mashing / sparging / boiling / cooling etc He wanted to know why you had to boil for an hour. He suggested once it had reached the boil the wort was sterilised. I was trying to convince him hops needed to be boiled for 60 mins to extract bitterness. I then explained the flavour hops were more added towards the end of the boil or even at flame out.

My query is...... could you do a 15 or 30 min boil and just use more hops for bitterness? May be more expensive in hops but you would save on electricity and more importantly time. Is there a minimum boil time before the result would suffer?

I would appreciate your thoughts......

 

[Bigcol49]

Inconclusive but interesting result of this experiment.
The worry is that a short boil may not drive off all the DMS.

 

[ACBEV]

To be honest I'm not sure about the whys and wherefores. one things I am sure of, processes are going on while boiling. I have done a lot of reading on old beer recipes and methods, in periods of high fuel costs breweries reduced boil times to save money. Beers that had long boil times, like 2 or 3 hours, were reduced, but never below 1 hour. I'm sure if breweries could make good beer with less time boiling, they would.

 

[Sadfield]

Inconclusive but interesting result of this experiment.
The worry is that a short boil may not drive off all the DMS.

This, and many other reasons. Although boiling is a simple process for brewers, chemically it's very complex. Isomerisation, caramelisation, volatilisation, precipitation are some of the simultaneous processes going on.

This covers most of it.

 

[foxy]

My minimum boil time is 90 minutes on most beers, a 3% ABV mild I boil for 60 minutes

 

[Smileyr8]

The last few batches I have made (3 kegged & 1 in the FV, Bitters, Golden Ale and a Stout which as yet is untested but I expect will be fine), have only been boiled for 30 minutes, I would not say my palate is sophisticated, but as far as I can tell the resulting beers did not suffer, ABV, Taste etc all seemed fine.
As others have mentioned the only change required is a hop adjustment. I will watch the Dr Charles Bamford Video later & be prepared to be proved wrong.

 

[Sadfield]

I will watch the Dr Charles Bamford Video later & be prepared to be proved wrong.

Or not. Most brewing best practice is to improve consistency, beer stability and reducing risk of faults. Doing something other will probably work most of the time.

 

[HoppyTommy]

Many thanks for those replies gents. I can inform my mate now and pretend I know what I'm on about!!!

Having just read an article on beersmith and the comments above I might try a 90 minute boil vs my normal 60 and see if any difference emerges.

 

[AdeDunn]

Many thanks for those replies gents. I can inform my mate now and pretend I know what I'm on about!!!

Having just read an article on beersmith and the comments above I might try a 90 minute boil vs my normal 60 and see if any difference emerges.

I increased my boils from 60 to 90 minutes the last few brews. Now this is a subjective thing, but I prefer how the beer tastes from the 90 minute boil batches. It could be something as simple as kettle caramelisation though, giving the beer a pleasant hint of caramel in the flavour profile, which in some styles is a real plus.

I'm not as intent on shortening my brew day as some folks though, I prefer to take a more relaxed approach and just multi-task whilst I brew. I've found that this approach fits in better with daily family life for me. So it's win win boiling longer for me.

 

[Cwrw666]

I usually do an 80 minute mash and an 80m boil as well. No idea if it has any effect on the beer but the extra time is just sitting in a chair time so it makes for a slightly more relaxed brewday. Obviously the boil will cost a bit more but now we've got a smart meter I did a check and the whole brewday only costs £1.30 so it's peanuts / pint.

 

[IainM]

It depends on the beer. Well modified pale malt and 30 mins should be enough to do all the essentials. I've certainly not seen any noticeable difference in a couple of 30 min boils.

 

[Smileyr8]

Or not. Most brewing best practice is to improve consistency, beer stability and reducing risk of faults. Doing something other will probably work most of the time.

Ok I have seen the video and understand the process, basically its stated that if the boil is not long enough (38 minutes at sea level apparently) not all the DMS will be boiled off leaving a "Creamed Corn" flavour.
OK now I know what I am looking for I will pay extra attention looking for it even though I am not 100% sure what "Creamed Corn" tastes like.
I plan to have a taste of the as yet un-tasted stout this weekend so will report back after that.

Its also worth noting that with the 30 minute boil I no longer need to liquour back in order to get to full brew lengths.

 

[Sadfield]

Creamed Corn = Mashed up Sweetcorn

 

[EddtheBrew]

To be honest I'm not sure about the whys and wherefores. one things I am sure of, processes are going on while boiling. I have done a lot of reading on old beer recipes and methods, in periods of high fuel costs breweries reduced boil times to save money. Beers that had long boil times, like 2 or 3 hours, were reduced, but never below 1 hour. I'm sure if breweries could make good beer with less time boiling, they would.

Hi All ,
Here's a bit of info for you on boiling times during the great war (& 1919)
Walker's of Warrington
Red XX Mild 13/05/1918. @ 1.025° = 80 mins (sacch brew boil) , and 140 mins on the malt brew boil
4 d Mild 04/03/1919 : sacch boil @ 1.5 hours , Malt boil @ 2:40 !!
A , 07/06/1918 @ 90 mins
XX 5 d , 05/03/1919 : Sacch boil @ 1 hour , Malt boil @ 2:20
Tetley's were boiling for a minimum of two hours in 1916,
Crowley's of Alton were boiling for a minimum of 2 hours in 1917 (A.K , 2.25 on Stout & Porter , and 2.5 on Bitter Beers and up to 3 hours on their Stock Ale !!
Hope that's of some interest ;
Personally, I wouldn't boil for any less than 1.5 hours on all types .
Cheers
Edd

 

[chewie]

Interesting query that I'm sure someone will answer instantly....

I was keenly showing off my new Grainfather to a friend and explaining the stages eg mashing / sparging / boiling / cooling etc He wanted to know why you had to boil for an hour. He suggested once it had reached the boil the wort was sterilised. I was trying to convince him hops needed to be boiled for 60 mins to extract bitterness. I then explained the flavour hops were more added towards the end of the boil or even at flame out.

My query is...... could you do a 15 or 30 min boil and just use more hops for bitterness? May be more expensive in hops but you would save on electricity and more importantly time. Is there a minimum boil time before the result would suffer?

I would appreciate your thoughts......

Assuming a 3kw element being used for boiling for 1 hour your electric cost is only going to be in the region of 60p, 60p won't buy you that many extra hops and even with extra hops you will still need to boil for a min of 30 mins.

I wouldn't be so worried about DMS unless mashing a pilsner type beer or using badly stored grain.

 

[Gunge]

I usually do an 80 minute mash and an 80m boil as well. No idea if it has any effect on the beer but the extra time is just sitting in a chair time so it makes for a slightly more relaxed brewday. Obviously the boil will cost a bit more but now we've got a smart meter I did a check and the whole brewday only costs £1.30 so it's peanuts / pint.

It's surprising how little it costs to have 2 X 2200W elements raging away for so long... makes me wonder where the electricity goes the rest of the time! I've settled on a 60m boil these days - anything less doesn't feel right, any more seems a waste of time and a little bit of money.

 

[strange-steve]

Reducing boil time is probably one of those shortcuts that by itself won't make much of a difference to your brew. Personally, I've recently taken G. Strong's advice and settled on a 75 min boil to ensure a good hot break.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I moved to 30 minute boils some time ago and have never looked back.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
This is interesting.

 

[HoppyTommy]

Hi!
This is interesting.

Would be interesting to know if anyone has tried this eg hopping at 75 degrees centigrade during the chill. I presume you could cool to 75 deg. Hop, then wait 20 mins then recommence the chill.